Backcountry Pilot • Flying in the Cold?

Flying in the Cold?

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Re: Flying in the Cold?

courierguy wrote:The black pipe wrap tape is good for sealing up things for the winter, when you're ready to take it off it comes off clean, no residue like duct tape.


I have gaffers tape that also has those properties. I had never thought to put some on the leaky door by my leg. I'm going to have to try that!
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

Duct tape is a nightmare on aircraft. I am not 13 years old anymore (at least physically). :D
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

Battery solenoid froze today in the citabria. Walked back to the plane just as it was getting dark and there was no nothing when flipping the master. No click sound like you normally hear from the solenoid in back by the battery. Hand propped without too much problem - luckily there was some heat left in the engine. On the flight home, tried the master again and everything lit up. It's been hanging just above 0* F here lately. Anyone else had that issue and have a preventative fix?

Remember that there can be significant altimeter errors on cold days. I think the real risk for a VFR pilot is if you are coming back in the dark and assuming that at such an indicated altitude the towers, etc will be way below; or you will have several hundred feet to "safely" clear the ridge. If you need a quick refresher on altimeter errors related to the cold:
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publicat ... m0702.html

The Cessna mixture and cowling cables have been uber stiff until the plane heats up. Better when I leave a ceramic heater in the cabin. What are folks in the Northern Latitudes lubing cables with? Some greases can be thick in the cold, but I suppose some of the lube sprays can be problematic as well? Everything was lubed with LPS 2 at annual. Lots of ACF-50 before and after floats. Haven't been so stiff before in the winter and wondering if there is something better.

Thanks for the empasis on the need to cover the prop and shaft. I need to be better about that, I suppose. When I shut down and plug in, I pull the oil dipstick out slightly. It is amazing the amount of moisture that will pour out in a steady stream for around 3-5 minutes and likely continues for much longer. No bugs to fly in during the winter and I figure I'm getting rid of a lot of potentially harmful moisture that would otherwise be condensing in the case. I think this is a bit more of a concern with just an oil pan heater, where the lower engine is warmer than the upper. I have the full Reiff system on the Cessna and the whole thing stays so toasty I don't think there is likely any condensation at the upper case.

I warn folks that fly with me in the winter that I don't turn on the cabin heat. I explain with all the layers I wear, it would be to hot. Most get the idea and dress a bit more prepared.

Headsets and other pieces of equipment that contain any plastic will become very brittle and should be handled gently. The old lightspeed headsets would crack headbands if you didn't warm them by putting them inside your coat for a bit before stretching over your thick head.

Electronics can take a bit longer to start up too. The ceramic heater in the cabin has been great for preheating these. When I haven't used it, sometimes the transponder will be waking up just about the time I can sqwuak VFR.

As has been stated though, most recreational pilots will hit a cold threshold and are more likely to head for the hot tub than the hangar. They won't ever understand, the turbocharging effect the cold air has on the engine; as well as the pilot. Skis need to go on this week, me thinks.
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

A vernatherm has been part of most of the engines I have owned over the years. It really was not any solution to cold though. The oil cooler, up front in the breeze on my O-470 prevented temps that would dissipate internal moisture in flight in winter. I know I am in Arizona... and most think that means Saguaro cactus and all that. Well, the digital readout on my porch this morning is 11.9 F or about 11.17 C
So, the foil tape over the front of the oil cooler... brought things up above the needed warmth to get the water out of the crankcase in my past winters here.
My new O-320 is in the experimental category. It has a Bowden cable to pull or push in the cockpit that closes a sliding door over the cooler. COOL. No, wait..... hot.
The EZ heat has been plugged in all night and I have no doubt she will fire right up this AM and go watch the sunrise.
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

Last night (in spite of what seemed to be agonizingly cold temp: -13C, 9F—I must be getting old! Wait—I am old!), I decided to go flying, thinking I'd be up and back before dark. Well, cold slows everything down. It takes longer to get to the airport; it takes more effort to get the hangar open (darned sliding doors); it takes time to unplug the heaters; it takes time to take off the covers on the spinner, prop, and cowl; and then it takes more effort (even using the electric tug) to get the airplane out and ready to pre-flight. Actually, I left the covers on while I pre-flighted, although I'd already pulled LRB out into the snow.

Preheated, the engine fired as if it was a Spring day. However, all that cold air coming in, it took awhile before everything was running as smoothly as it should. By then, it was dusk--well, almost dark, so I checked all the lights to make sure that they worked. By the time I taxied out of the hangar area, the AWOS called for a 6 knot wind from 260--actually, that was good, because that meant more taxi time and consequently a warmer engine.

About halfway to the run-up area for 27, I remembered to turn on the cabin heat--last time up, I didn't need it! With the mixture control pulled out, the EGTs were climbing, so there actually was some heat coming in, as soon as I pulled the knob.

By the time I finished the run-up, it was pitch black out. Today had been relatively clear all day, but high clouds moved in as the sun went down, and so no help from stars or moon or anything else, other than the field lights and LRB's lights. With no plan in mind, I first flew over Greeley and then north toward my friend Russ's strip, where I kept LRB for a year. I could actually see his strip--darker than the surrounding snow--but I'd never try to land there at night, unless he turned on the runway lights (new since I kept LRB there)--the land around his strip looks flat from the air, but there are all sorts of things that would turn a nice airplane into a crumpled ball of aluminum, if I were to miss the strip.

Then I flew toward Wellington, and then I decided to fly on down to Fort Collins/Loveland (FNL). Not too busy tonight--a Cessna 172 in the pattern, doing T&Gs (which makes no sense to me, daytime or night time, but especially at night, when the only way they count for night currency is to do them full stop). People argue that they can get more landings in that way--but not when you're doing B-52 size patterns like he was. Our landings matched exactly, although I fully stopped, then re-configured for take off. Of course, my airplane is a tiny bit faster than a stock 172, but mostly I fly tighter patterns than many of today's CFIs teach. So I did a couple of those, then returned to GXY.

The wind had changed, so I set up for 34. When I pulled up to the hangar and turned 90 degrees away, I sorta buried the tires in 4" of snow--didn't realize it was that deep. But because I'd gone out to check on things after all this cold and took the time to put the chains on the electric tug yesterday, it struggled a bit, but it was able to push LRB back, through the snow and up the little hill into the hangar. What a marvelous way to save backs and frustration! http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ps7de46e7d.jpg

The coldest part of the night was putting on all the covers again, after plugging the heaters in again. Glad I left the engine running on the car, so it was toasty when I got in.

Even without the stars and moon, it was a gorgeous night. A couple of ripples here and there, but mostly smooth, very peaceful. With only the other 172 and later a Navajo landing at FNL, there wasn't much activity. So much fun!

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Re: Flying in the Cold?

Hi Matt,

Great write up. Regarding your question,

"...Battery solenoid froze today in the citabria. Walked back to the plane just as it was getting dark and there was no nothing when flipping the master. No click sound like you normally hear from the solenoid in back by the battery. Hand propped without too much problem - luckily there was some heat left in the engine. On the flight home, tried the master again and everything lit up. It's been hanging just above 0* F here lately. Anyone else had that issue and have a preventative fix? ..."

Seems that the battery was dead. It charged in flight? 0F is mighty cold for a battery. How old is it?
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

I had the battery solenoid stick in the Luscombe once when it was cold out. The engine was cold so I couldn't had prop it. I gentle tap on the solenoid with buckle on a cam strap I keep in the plane got it going.

I really enjoy flying in the winter, air is smooth, performance is awesome, views are stunning. Because my plane is parked outside and I don't have a preheating system on it I don't fly as much in the winter as I'd like to. I'm hoping to change that this year by installing skis and keeping the plane at a friends farm where it will have access to electricity.
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

Decided to drive rather than fly the 182 Saturday morning...

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Re: Flying in the Cold?

I think some of the old solenoids are oil filled, and when it's cold, they take forever to move. In my '56 C172 I'll pull the master as I pre-flight, and have it click on maybe 5 minutes later.

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Re: Flying in the Cold?

Thanks Gump! After hand propping, it still didn't come on with the alternator turning, so not a battery thing, but certainly a valid thought. I left it on for a bit, but after the takeoff, turned it off as I don't like switches left on to things that aren't responding. Tried it again just before landing at a nearby strip and the dang thing lit up.
Now I'll have the confidence to just leave it on for a bit. Have had starter solenoids go out and tapping them with the starter switch engaged did the trick. This was late however and what was left of the daylight wasn't going to give me time to pull out the rear bulkhead and use the mechanic's fine adjustment tool to fix a potential problem.
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

I'm always leary about leaving switches engaged when something doesn't seem to be reacting, too. Years ago when I was flying the 231 Mooney around a lot, I took its owner and his wife to Riverton, thinking I was staying over and that he'd made arrangements for the airplane to be hangared. I wasn't, and he didn't, so it sat on the ramp all afternoon into the evening, faced into the wind, and got thoroughly cold-soaked. When I went to try starting it, the master wouldn't engage. I flipped the switch a few times, and nothing happened. Whether it was a slow-acting solenoid or a low battery or what, I didn't know.

Stupidly, I thought it would help if I had the ramp rabbit use their starting cart, so we plugged it into the APU receptacle. But I (stupidly again) didn't think to say that it was a 12v system, the ramp rabbit assumed that it was a 24v system, so we fried the master solenoid in no time flat, as soon as I flipped the master switch on. The FBO accepted responsibility, though, and their mechanic came out after dinner, had a master solenoid that would work, and installed it. By the time he finished, since he'd dragged the airplane into the shop hangar to do the work, it was warm enough that it easily started, and I flew it home to Laramie.

Other than that, I haven't had master solenoids fail to engage, even in bitter cold weather, unless they were worn out and failed altogether, usually with some warning like not working consistently for awhile.

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Re: Flying in the Cold?

This cold weather stuff is another reason I'm leaning to firewall mounting my 7GCBC battery. All the solenoids and battery will be in the engine compartment where they will benefit from the preheat. If you apply SL418 they even move the starter solenoid to the back if that's where the battery is, at least with the firewall mount you have easy access with the "fine adjustment tool".
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

I guess I'm the odd man out.....I've never had a problem with a solenoid due to cold weather. I've had a couple solenoids fail, but not due to cold.

Dump those crappy batteries and install an Odyssey battery. You'll have a battery that works, even when it's cold (I ran Huskys with the battery aft and parked them outdoors overnight at -40) AND you'll get rid of 8 to 10 pounds of useless weight too.

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Re: Flying in the Cold?

I'm with you MTV. Ive never had a problem with my selenoid or battery. Would like to change up to an oddyssey and mount it on the firewall.
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

I do not want to preempt any of the great guidance the real cold weather Gurus listed.

But, I really love Concord!

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RG-25XC has the highest cranking power and capacity in the 25 Group.

Recombinant Gas - The RG® Series are low resistance, valve regulated lead acid (VRLA) batteries.
Superior starting power
Reliable essential power in the event of a generator failure
Low impedance design
Maintenance free
Constructed with non removable vent valves - no addition of electrolyte or water required
Aerobatic: Non spillable at any altitude or attitude
Factory tested to assure airworthiness
Shipped fully charged and ready to install
Manufactured with absorbed glass mat separators (AGM)
RG® Series batteries ship Hazmat Exempt
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

BTW, the 12v bell wire/long johns first layer approach can be home made for the blades/hub/heat sink out front to bring that mass up to temp directly instead of indirectly. Just cover well with a couple pair of thick material "one legged sweat pants".

Humor: I took a fellow aviator out flying one winter and he watched me "undress" the cowl/prop/hub before we went. After the flight I was re-dressing the whole front end as he observed. I was putting on the sweat pants that have one leg inverted into the other very neatly for a "double thickness one legged sweat" when he ask where I had bought all the sweat pants. I answered him at Goodwill. He asked if one legged sweats were common there, he had never seen any before...?... #-o
Yes, sometimes I talk first-and think after-on occasion, too. :oops: :lol:
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

8GCBC wrote:I do not want to preempt any of the great guidance the real cold weather Gurus listed.

But, I really love Concord!

Image

RG-25XC has the highest cranking power and capacity in the 25 Group.

Recombinant Gas - The RG® Series are low resistance, valve regulated lead acid (VRLA) batteries.
Superior starting power
Reliable essential power in the event of a generator failure
Low impedance design
Maintenance free
Constructed with non removable vent valves - no addition of electrolyte or water required
Aerobatic: Non spillable at any altitude or attitude
Factory tested to assure airworthiness
Shipped fully charged and ready to install
Manufactured with absorbed glass mat separators (AGM)
RG® Series batteries ship Hazmat Exempt


And, that battery right there is one of the ones we replaced in Fairbanks. I hand propped (on skis....a REALLY fun gig) two airplanes with those batteries, because they don't like cold temps. I would never install one of those things in an airplane that will be operated in cold weather.

We replaced these bricks with Odyssey batteries, lost 8 pounds and gained almost total reliability.

MTV
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

Hand propping on skis, wow. that never occurred to me that goes on. :shock: The cacophony of mental images that simple statement made, made me laugh out loud for the first time this morning, still laughing! Hand propped, flown skis, not both at once, thanks but no thanks #-o Still laughing....
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

^^^^ Hand propping a little Cub on skis in snow is like on floats. No big deal. From behind and feet apart and as stable as possible, and with a good grip on the door frame with the left hand, use the right hand to toss the prop.
Sounds a little precarious, but what IS precarious is on bare ice. Real good grip with the left hand. And feet as stable as possible (boards, boughs, grass, sand-or just good boots).
Be careful/pay attention-and don't let it become "routine"......
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Re: Flying in the Cold?

Littlecub wrote:^^^^ Hand propping a little Cub on skis in snow is like on floats. No big deal. From behind and feet apart and as stable as possible, and with a good grip on the door frame with the left hand, use the right hand to toss the prop.
Sounds a little precarious, but what IS precarious is on bare ice. Real good grip with the left hand. And feet as stable as possible (boards, boughs, grass, sand-or just good boots).
Be careful/pay attention-and don't let it become "routine"......


Did a 185 on wheel ski's one time!!
Felt real good when it finally started!!
I'll try never to do that in the future!!
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