I'll be passing through the SLC are this summer in my Rans S7S and wasn't sure about the north end around Hill AFB. Does anyone know if you have go around their airspace or will the Hill tower allow you to transit at low altitude encounter to/from Ogden? Thanks.

They re-did a lot of that recently, I think you can still follow "mountain road" along the East side. If you're cruising above 12, you can avoid some routing. http://axenty.com/blog/safety/salt-lake ... ign-final/

I'm based at Ogden (OGD). You have choices: Go around Ogden class D and Hill AFB class D, then under Salt Lake City (KSLC) class C. Another choice, and I think the best and easiest is to transit both class D's and SLC class C. Controllers in each if these areas are easy to work with and they are accustomed to GA traffic transiting their airspaces. Each will hand you off to the next.

Or, you can do what I do (largely because of ignorance and no transponder ), and take the back door route, the east side of the Wasatch. I did manage the front route once, it just seemed like more hassle then it was worth, in the future when heading S I'll just take the backside route.

Transitioning the area is easy. There are a couple charted transition routes. I'm also based in OGD. Although you can go down the east side of the valley and avoid SLC Class B, that area around BTF is a very busy bottleneck of GA traffic. I wouldn't recommend going through there without talking to controllers. You can also fly over the top of the Bravo, but again, I wouldn't recommend it. Remember you've got airline and corporate traffic transitioning the area vertically at 250 knots. Not real smart in my opinion. The backside is an option and is much more scenic, but if your looking for efficiency of time, just fly one of the transitions and be on your way.

So, now more directly to your question, coming from the north, you can either contact Ogden tower or circumnavigate it to the west. If you talk them, request the I-15 transition southbound. OGD will hand you over to Hill tower as you follow I-15 southbound. They will ask you to report 5 miles south, at which time they will cut you loose. They do not usually coordinate a handoff with SLC approach. At this point you are in the area of Lagoon, an amusement park that is also a VFR checkpoint. Heads up here too because in this area the Class B shelves start lowering. At Lagoon get on the east side of I-15 if you've not made contact yet with approach and make sure you are under the shelve. On call up, tell them you want the I-15 transition southbound. They will tell you to fly over I-15 southbound, what altitude, and will either give you a Class B clearance at this time or shortly down the road. As you near the the ridge line that jots out by the capital abeam the tower, Class B goes to the surface. You will normally be given Class B clearance well before this and be switched over to tower if they are busy to transition the portion that reaches the surface. Otherwise approach will keep you all the way.

Once south of the capital, you will be told to stay over I-15 southbound or may be given the instruction to stay over or east of I-15. Depending on your altitude, you may be out of class bravo and depending on the controller's workload, he may tell you to remain clear of class bravo. Not a big deal as you have lots of room vertically and horizontally to fly south and exit the area. Be heads up on Provo's class D south of there.

Unless you're landing at OGD, it may be easier to either circumnavigate OGD and Hill's airspace to the west and make your first call to approach around the Lagoon area as described above. Or, if you are high enough that you'll be in one of the Class B shelves in the OGD area (and thus above both OGD and Hill's class D), just call approach north of OGD and get a class B clearance for the I-15 transition southbound as described.

As was said above, the controllers are good to work with, especially if you come across as knowing what you're doing and are competent. I see a lot of people waste a lot of money and time because Class B intimidates them but this one shouldn't give you any heartburn. Just tell them what you'd like to do and they will help you out.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or want me to talk you through it as it gets closer. Happy to help.

What Cory said.

Thanks for the help! I'm based at a class C airport and navigate around Chicago Class B all the time so that's not a problem. I've always stayed clear of military towers so I wasn't sure what they allowed to transition through their space.

For all practical purposes, military towers are no different from civilian towers as long as you're in the air. Just don't try to land there!

Cary

So...not having a transponder is no big deal? You need to squawk right? Or can I just tell them my transponder is inoperative and get a pass? Or can I do it without lying to them?

Good info, I'm actually going to print this thread out and keep it in my out of date and obsolete Flight Guide! Give me a short and steep mountainside that hasn't been landed before, and I'm good, not nervous at all, talking to multiple controllers in a big city enviro makes me quiver and act like a student pilot. I have some upcoming biz to deal with S of SLC, and may try to run the gauntlet rather then the go around. Wow, what an adventure!

Airshofoto: stop by if you get in my area, about 135 miles N of SLC, right off I-15 south of Pocatello. It's alays good to see another RANS bird.

courierguy wrote:So...not having a transponder is no big deal? You need to squawk right? Or can I just tell them my transponder is inoperative and get a pass? Or can I do it without lying to them?

Good info, I'm actually going to print this thread out and keep it in my out of date and obsolete Flight Guide! Give me a short and steep mountainside that hasn't been landed before, and I'm good, not nervous at all, talking to multiple controllers in a big city enviro makes me quiver and act like a student pilot. I have some upcoming biz to deal with S of SLC, and may try to run the gauntlet rather then the go around. Wow, what an adventure!

Airshofoto: stop by if you get in my area, about 135 miles N of SLC, right off I-15 south of Pocatello. It's alays good to see another RANS bird.

Hey CG,

You can operate without a transponder. I've never done it, but my understanding is to call at least an hour ahead and make arrangements. No doubt controlled busy airspace and dealing controllers can be intimidating if you've not done a lot of it or not recently. But the guys down in SLC are pretty good. Let us know if you give it a try and feel free to call if you have questions.

From AOPA:

ATC Authorized Deviations

According to 14 CFR 91.215(d), requests for deviations must be made to the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the concerned airspace within the time periods specified as follows:

For operation of an aircraft with an operating transponder but without operating automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment having a Mode C capability, the request may be made at any time.

For operation of an aircraft with an inoperative transponder to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made or both, the request may be made at any time.

For operation of an aircraft that is not equipped with a transponder, the request must be made at least one hour before the proposed operation.

Here is the link to the source:

http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/PIC-archive/Equipment/Transponder-Requirements.aspx

corey is right of course. when im going south from idaho falls, its very easy to jump on flight following and they take care of most all of it, plus they watch out for us slow guys so as not to get us run over...! like corey said, lots of big fast stuff coming and going so being on with them is nice...

OK, a phone call an hour ahead of time.

Do I need a radio too? Just kidding....thanks for the info, I'll screw my courage up and give it a shot next time southbound.

courierguy wrote:OK, a phone call an hour ahead of time.

Do I need a radio too? Just kidding....thanks for the info, I'll screw my courage up and give it a shot next time southbound.

You can call them from over the Malad VOR, and they'll funnel you right through. Found that out by accident. Bad news is they'll shoot you through over the lake. Bring your floaties.

How GA friendly is Provo?

I'm thinking of stopping there overnight northbound, then crossing the Class B the next morning when I'm fresh. I think I would cross SLC on the vfr flyways, probably VPSLC to VPBRN and then on my merry way.

Any gotchas with this plan?

-chris

I haven't been into Provo in nearly 20 years, so I don't know. Before the tower and TSA, it was fine. The controllers are accommodating and friendly while transitioning. Make sure to get the SLC approach freq from them. The published freq for that sector at low altitude doesn't work well. There is another that I haven't found where it is published that is the one they use. Something like 118.85 or something like that.

Where are you headed? If you are going north, honestly it's just as easy to just go up the I15 transition to Lagoon, then hang a left to follow the shoreline to remain clear of Hill's and OGD's class D. You'll be in class bravo only briefly abeam the tower and the shelves north of there are high enough that you'll be clear of it so long as you stay east of the freeway.

Oh, FYI, Spanish Fork is a better GA friendly option with a nice courtesy car for the asking.

I am heading to Morgan County (just east of Ogden) on Sun morning from Nor Cal. Go direct to Wendover then to Delle to fill up. From Delle to Morgan. Should be able to stay under SLC. I will probably talk to em anyway. Will they hand me off to Hill?

Tim

I've found the SLC controllers to be very relaxed and laid-back. Getting flight following well north of the Class B makes it super easy - they'll coordinate all the handoffs and the SLC approach controllers will already know where you're going and should issue a Class B clearance no problem.

Whatever you do, DO NOT cross over the top of Class B VFR without talking to anyone! The last two TCAS RA's (Resolution Advisories) I've had both involved aircraft transiting 500' over the top of Class B airspace. One was flying through the departure corridor out of LAX - I was the pilot flying, climbing at 320 knots and 3500 fpm in a 757 and basically had to "put them on the roof" in the cabin to keep from hitting the guy. We missed him by a few hundred feet. The last one was last month, south of SLC on the arrival with the other guy flying. SLC approach did a good job pointing the guy out, noting, "we're not talking to him, but we sure want to know who he is!" We were able to tell him what kind of aircraft and what colors, but that was it.

TCAS TA's (Traffic Alerts) are something we get all the time - basically, the system tells us to "keep an eye on this traffic". RA's require maneuvering to avoid traffic, even if it violates an ATC clearance, and they also require us to submit a written report.

Flight following is a great tool to help avoid conflicts when you're transiting busy airspace!

qmdv wrote:I am heading to Morgan County (just east of Ogden) on Sun morning from Nor Cal. Go direct to Wendover then to Delle to fill up. From Delle to Morgan. Should be able to stay under SLC. I will probably talk to em anyway. Will they hand me off to Hill?

Tim

Just call approach on 120.9 when you are abeam Tooele and expect 6,000 over I-80 East or the Barn transition over the top of the Airport. When you hit Redwood road or I-15 they will send you North. Tell them you are going to Morgan and you would like the Mountain Road Corridor to Weber Canyon, expect 8,000 and they will either hand you off to Hill at Lagoon or if they are controlling Hill's airspace (strong possibility on a Sunday afternoon) you'll stay with them. Its easy as pie!!!

Some people want to head over the lake at Tooele, take a big jog and circumvent the whole system just to avoid Class B controllers but they are laid back and are watching all the traffic you can't see. Free service for now so I'd use them.

Enjoy-

qmdv wrote:I am heading to Morgan County (just east of Ogden) on Sun morning from Nor Cal. Go direct to Wendover then to Delle to fill up. From Delle to Morgan. Should be able to stay under SLC. I will probably talk to em anyway. Will they hand me off to Hill?

Tim

My experience coming from the south is that they are more likely tell you remain clear of class B once you are past BTF. And at Lagoon tell you to follow the shoreline. I've had a few ask if I wanted to continue via I15 and they have coordinated it for me. If they don't ask and I request it, it's been hit or miss...usually depends on the time of day and if they have any jets coming or going at Hill. This is probably in large part because I'm landing at OGD.

Like Lanny said, tell them you'd like Mt road (and make sure you know where it is) and they should take care of you. In fact, since you will have told them your destination, it's a good chance they will just give it to you.

They are good to work with, just ask.