Too bad Garmin Pilot cannot accept ADS-B traffic and Weather from other flight programs, such as FreeFlight. The latest version release: see https://youtu.be/fZWwCZmUjtY now brings the Pilot app up to or equal to FF.

I have used Pilot for several years now and really like it and the new additions strengthen the product substantially.

However, the FF Connect program provides a link to other ADS-B suppliers to display their traffic and weather information on the Foreflight display. Good business decision.

Gamin's decision to stay with a proprietary format locks other vendors out of their system. While this may sell more GDL-39's and possibly the very expensive GTX-345 in the short term, history has shown that tight proprietary controlled products, as a class, do not survive in the market place.

While I would love Garmin to open Pilot, I am pretty sure they will not and I will probably pay the extra $$ and convert over to FF in order to use a more economical ADS-B IN/OUT system that will display data on my tablet.

TD

Barnstormer wrote:Cary, I dodge it all. Just set up the route with fuel stops or overnight stops and an occasional waypoint as a turning point. It's easy to avoid controlled air space in the central and western US. Suspect that will be the case for as long as I fly.


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Good! I hope I didn't come across as insulting. I have represented pilots in the past who flew through restricted areas, and even when they kept their certificates and only paid a "civil penalty", the annoyance of having to take a day off to meet with the FAA and pay their superbly competent attorney so often could have been completely avoided by a bit more careful flying.

Cary

Nah, we are all friends here. Speaking of friends one has his ADS-B out to show "It wasn't me" instead of an N number, no idea how he did it but It's pretty funny.


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Barnstormer wrote:Nah, we are all friends here. Speaking of friends one has his ADS-B out to show "It wasn't me" instead of an N number, no idea how he did it but It's pretty funny.

Not to be a killjoy, but funny and a certain enforcement action waiting to happen.

So I thought I'd update this thread.

First I'm now only one feature away from being able to consolidate on just one app, and that will be Garmin Pilot. The one feature missing is fuel prices for Canada.

Second, so living in Alaska now I have two iPhones, one for my AT&T account and number which is my primary phone, and one for my Verizon account and number which is my secondary phone for those places in Alaska without AT&T support but with Verizon. I've matched up all the apps on both phones and they have all the same email accounts, calendars etc. Even text messaging to either also goes to the other. Pretty cool for me so they are identical. Well almost.

You see although Foreflight allows three devices to a subscription but they restrict those devices to two iPads and one iPhone. I have one iPad and two iPhones. I called them about this and they couldn't explain the restriction. They did tell me I could just log on/off between the iPhones and have Foreflight on both but of course only use one at a time. Doesn't seem to unreasonable especially since Garmin Pilot restricts subscriptions to only two devices. BUT WAIT!

Garmin Pilot now allows three devices to a subscription! And guess what, they don't restrict which three devices. Foreflight's days are numbered for me. Competition is what is allowing that finally. Come on Canada Fuel prices in Pilot.

All you need to know about Canadian fuel prices is that they are high!

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The pros and cons of these don't surprise me too much. Garmin is a mapping company so they will think those things through, and ForeFlight started as a flight planning tool on desktop computers back before iPads even existed. I pretty much stick with FF just because it's what I've used since forever, and they are rapidly adding some very useful things.

FF also allows flight planning on a web interface now which I can sync to my tablet (and vice versa), which is one of the highest things on my wish list. I spend a lot of time on skyvector playing "what if" or seeing how I can get around terrain and airspace, so not having to duplicate that again is fantastic. The Garmin Smart Airspace feature looks really intriguing though... Can it only show real time, or will it predict the future (i.e. my flight will take 4 hours from A to B through this airspace, these blocks will be lit/unlit for your ETA)?

Regarding ADS-B in, one bit of feedback I recently received is that the portable receivers (Stratus, etc) miss 10-20% of air traffic when compared to a fixed installation. This is from someone with a fleet of planes, who has tested both options in multiple aircraft. While I have a Stratux DIY receiver for now, that information does sway which direction I will end up going when I equip ADS-B out soon. The Stratus ESG is neat and lower cost, but adds clutter and is apparently less accurate. You can get integrated in/out in one box that looks to work a bit better without spending a ton more, if you're going that route. If you don't care about ADS-B out in the first place, then get a portable box and fly happy, just know you may be missing a little bit of data. I suppose there is always a downside to cheap/easy.

What's holding me back from Garmin Pilot still is access to the Canada Flight Supplement. Foreflight has it in documents as a full .pdf. You can also access the page for any individual aerodrome from the airports page, and of course indirectly from the maps page.

The same applies from the Water Aerodrome Supplement.

It seems to me that the tide has turned to GP, the last two releases of FF were features that GP already had.

The funny thing is that I bought a GDL and Ipad and subscribed to GP, after all that I still use my 396 98% of the time. It has everything I need (moving map, GS, aircraft voltage), and is already mounted. All the features that are coming out on GP and FF I just don't need, I know my glide range, I don't use the logging feature, the weather doesn't work where I need it to, and when I tested SV in VFR it was an 8th mile or so off.

Colopilot wrote:

.
Regarding ADS-B in, one bit of feedback I recently received is that the portable receivers (Stratus, etc) miss 10-20% of air traffic when compared to a fixed installation.

I wonder if this is largely influenced by the antenna. A handheld for example with a a rubber duckie or even short whip antenna will often receive far less effectively than a similar unit plugged into a fixed external antenna. The same holds for other VHF/UHF comm gear such as ham radio receivers/transceivers.

I do wonder whether such portable ADSB units thrown up on the glare shield simply suffer from weaker signal strength due to a compromised antenna. Maybe, maybe not? For experimentals, getting a better antenna ought not be too hard? Do love Foreflight.

Comments?

Denali wrote:Colopilot wrote:

.
Regarding ADS-B in, one bit of feedback I recently received is that the portable receivers (Stratus, etc) miss 10-20% of air traffic when compared to a fixed installation.

I wonder if this is largely influenced by the antenna. A handheld for example with a a rubber duckie or even short whip antenna will often receive far less effectively than a similar unit plugged into a fixed external antenna. The same holds for other VHF/UHF comm gear such as ham radio receivers/transceivers.

I do wonder whether such portable ADSB units thrown up on the glare shield simply suffer from weaker signal strength due to a compromised antenna. Maybe, maybe not? For experimentals, getting a better antenna ought not be too hard? Do love Foreflight.

Comments?

Antenna quality and placement will absolutely affect what you receive. Even with the same equipment, an antenna mounted on a proper ground plane will perform better all other things equal. I think if you took something like a Stratus receiver and connected it to a fixed antenna, the results would be pretty good - though still maybe not 100%, but likely close. Fortunately Foreflight works with either approach, so it's just up to whatever money you want to toss as the problem.

colopilot wrote:

Denali wrote:Colopilot wrote:

.
Regarding ADS-B in, one bit of feedback I recently received is that the portable receivers (Stratus, etc) miss 10-20% of air traffic when compared to a fixed installation.

I wonder if this is largely influenced by the antenna. A handheld for example with a a rubber duckie or even short whip antenna will often receive far less effectively than a similar unit plugged into a fixed external antenna. The same holds for other VHF/UHF comm gear such as ham radio receivers/transceivers.

I do wonder whether such portable ADSB units thrown up on the glare shield simply suffer from weaker signal strength due to a compromised antenna. Maybe, maybe not? For experimentals, getting a better antenna ought not be too hard? Do love Foreflight.

Comments?

Antenna quality and placement will absolutely affect what you receive. Even with the same equipment, an antenna mounted on a proper ground plane will perform better all other things equal. I think if you took something like a Stratus receiver and connected it to a fixed antenna, the results would be pretty good - though still maybe not 100%, but likely close. Fortunately Foreflight works with either approach, so it's just up to whatever money you want to toss as the problem.

Absolutely correct. In fact, just moving the Stratus to the side of the glareshield (versus centered) can buy some improvement. But better yet is to attach the Stratus suction-cup mount to a side window – it REALLY improves the reception.

Appareo recently announced a patent for their "Portable Connect" capability for their Stratus ESG (ADS-B Extended Squitter transponder), which is described as follows:

The patented technology, named Portable Connect™, is a system wherein a signal received on the externally-mounted transponder antenna is passed through the transponder to a connector plate in the cockpit, where a portable ADS-B receiver can be plugged in. The signal collected by the external antenna is relayed to the portable receiver, greatly enhancing the signal strength of the receiver.

The Portable Connect patent makes Stratus ESG the only transponder that can share an aircraft’s external antenna with a portable ADS-B receiver in the cockpit. Portable Connect is compatible with many popular brands of ADS-B receivers; a variety of interface kits are available.

Here's a link to a video that describes it further: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5EkZVP ... e=youtu.be

For me, that was the final deciding factor in selecting the Stratus ESG over comparably-priced solutions from Garmin and others. I like having options, and the ability to upgrade my ADS-B IN device separate from the transponder is a plus in my book. My Stratus ESG installation is happening this week!

"Good Afternoon,

Thank you for contacting Garmin Aviation Product Support.

The request for Canadian fuel prices is currently in our system and being eyed for future implementation, but there is no set date for that change at this time.

If you need further assistance please contact us at the number listed below, Monday - Friday, 7am -7pm CST.


Best Regards,

Garmin Aviation Product Support
1200 E. 151st Street | Olathe, KS 66062, USA
Phone: +1.866.739.5687 | [email protected]"

I was a little miffed at Garmin the other day when I fired it up to put together a quick trip up north and it wanted me to log in and enter my password (which I didn't have with me, and couldn't remember ). In this case it was mostly a matter of convenience. I had a current chart with me, and was able to pull up some needed information elsewhere, but it was a good lesson. Make sure you have your passwords with you and a back up plan because something like that could ruin your day if the timing was bad and caught you unprepared.

CFOT wrote:I was a little miffed at Garmin the other day when I fired it up to put together a quick trip up north and it wanted me to log in and enter my password (which I didn't have with me, and couldn't remember ). In this case it was mostly a matter of convenience. I had a current chart with me, and was able to pull up some needed information elsewhere, but it was a good lesson. Make sure you have your passwords with you and a back up plan because something like that could ruin your day if the timing was bad and caught you unprepared.

On my iPhone's and iPad and Mac's I use mSecure to store all my passwords, bank accounts, credit card info, log in info, etc, etc etc etc. That way I only have to remember one password, the one I use to access mSecure. That way everything I need travels with me everywhere. mSecure's encryption has never been cracked/hacked.

Cary wrote:
I assume you know that you would have a near impossible task trying to make the same flight after January 1, 2020. You're going right over Tucson (Class C) and through a bunch of MOAs and eventually to Fresno (Class C). I see a lot of controlled airspace along that route, which requires a Mode C transponder now and which will require ADS-B Out come 2020.

I also think you have some route problems. It appears that you'll be going through some restricted areas north of El Paso (5103B, 5107K, 5107A, Ft. Bliss artillery ranges, surface on up daytime hours during the week). Then farther on, you're going through some more restricted areas northeast of Barstow (2502A, 2502N, perhaps 2502E, Ft. Irwin, continuous); (2505, China Lake NAS). Since I see from your Spot that you're on the way, I hope in reality that you're dodging these various restricted areas and not following the magenta line as you've depicted.

As I've said many times here and elsewhere, while I think there are some pilots who will be able to avoid the ADS-B Out mandate because of where they fly, for the vast majority of us, we'll really be hamstrung if we tried to fly across country without it.

In the meanwhile, I'm already seeing some real benefits to my flying, although not as much as there will be when most folks have had it installed. I really like having the visual and verbal traffic call outs, often for traffic I don't and won't see--it's nice to know that if it's a potential problem, I'll learn about it before I can see it, and if it's not a problem, that I don't have to worry about it.

Cary

To Cary's point: China Lake can be avoided flying West to East along US 395 but Edwards cannot. Flying North/South in that area and you're going to be in conflict with at least one if not both of those restricted areas Add 100 miles maybe for a dodge or 200. Will they allow a low level fly through with assigned alt and squawk when the space is down? I dunno yet. It will be fun to try. Maybe if I tell them I was born in Trona, CA (their airspace) they'll relent. Fallon NAS has a huge chunk of airspace blocking East/West travel from Reno to most of the Great Basin, but they have a tunnel along highway 50 that helps a bunch; and they'll clear you through if the airspace is currently clear. After 2020 will we get the same treatment? Heh heh heh heh heh heh. My money is on that uncontrolled tunnel going away or worse, that the Fallon class D becomes class C. I see no such help near Edwards and I doubt they move as much tin as does Fallon.

I'd hate to have to add ADSB to a normal category aircraft on my budget. Mine's an ELSA store-bought.

Sooooo, from this thread I'm seeing that I can get to in/out with an iPad, Foreflight/GPilot and some boxes. Right? I like that smart airspace feature a lot living where I live. I'm just dumb enough that learning ONE software is bad enough. I don't want to learn two.

Dunno about anywhere else,
but here in western Washington there are a number of restricted areas & MOA's
associated with NAS Whidbey & McChord AFB.
Most if not all are actually very seldom active.
Perfectly legal to fly through if that's the case.
Just don't try that with a prohibited area like P-51.

hotrod180 wrote:Dunno about anywhere else,
but here in western Washington there are a number of restricted areas & MOA's
associated with NAS Whidbey & McChord AFB.
Most if not all are actually very seldom active.
Perfectly legal to fly through if that's the case.
Just don't try that with a prohibited area like P-51.

MOAs are easy. Active times and altitudes are published on the chart. Restricted areas; some are some aren't right? Prohibited, prepare to be intercepted.

Slight drift....


Has anyone else had ForeFlight on an iPad come up with "no data" on the map screen when operating from a remote strip?

I have had this happen several times w/ FF, but when I go over to my Garmin Pilot app it comes up just fine.

My FF primarily gets its data from the 430W via FreeFlight, but also can have access to my Garmin Glo GPS.

The Garmin Pilot app only gets its data from the Garmin Glo, but is bullet proof.

So far I just get vague "need new update", or some other unhelpful suggestion from ForeFlight customer support. I really would prefer to not have to carry both apps but so far I have not been able to totally wean myself from Garmin pilot and having FF go paws up at remote strips does not endear me to them.

TD