Backcountry Pilot • Getting Ag Time

Getting Ag Time

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Re: Getting Ag Time

Rob wrote:
Nosedragger wrote: The new planes with ac and aileron and elevator servos look like a pretty comfortable way to spend a summer day.


… Meh… not so much…
or at least not always ;)


Excellent story telling!
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Re: Getting Ag Time

gbflyer wrote:Yes, gotta love the ditch-weed in the salad. What is too tough and stringy to be choked - down can be stockpiled on the edge of the plate for later use as dental floss.


LMAO!
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Re: Getting Ag Time

Rob wrote:
Nosedragger wrote: The new planes with ac and aileron and elevator servos look like a pretty comfortable way to spend a summer day.


… Meh… not so much…
or at least not always ;)

You see… 4 o'clock (4PM) yesterday afternoon I strapped into one precisely like that…

And when I did, not one grower, not one advisor cared in the least what the desert afternoon air was like.
No one cared that the thermals that were still touching off in the afternoon sky were enough to boil the air like some nasty concoction fit only for a witchs cauldron. Calling the unsettled spring air tumultuos would be an understatement. People from central Nevada know the air I'm talking about... It's the air that spells Miller time... because no one in their right mind would be flying ...

They also didn't seem bothered that it would be 4 hours of wooping before the sky settled enough to get along with. But it doesn't get much better then, because all at once the sky goes flat. Then there's not a breath of wind, and not a hint of vertical movement. You can't keep out of your vorticies regardless of which side you fly it from, The turns kick your ass, and you can't keep the oil off the windscreen. Not sure what's worse now… the fact that you are having a hard time seeing through the slime on the windshield, or the fact that you are now in a full blown inversion and have to put the nix on any more herbicide work for the evening… Someone's not going to be happy...

But hey… by then I'm in my groove and pushing hard…. because there's hay to make…. literally … In so much of a groove that it's not until an hour ago, (4 AM now) when I finally climb out of the cockpit that it really hits me… I am spent!

The balls of my feet hurt from jabbing the rudders, My knees are jello from the same…
My lower back is throbbing from a few thousand high G turns. High G because we were loaded up...
My arms are pumped from fighting various vorticies throughout the night...
My neck , and that space between my shoulder blades are burning from carrying that bowling ball around on my head all night...
My ears are sore from 12 hours of foamy ear plugs, and my ear drums are ringing from the iPod being set high enough to over power the shriek of the Pratt. Although truth be told, the prop alone would set my tinitus off, the music just soothes it…
My voice is coarse from barking out mixes to my loader, or profanities at my flying partner...
My eyes are burning, some days it's from the spent Jet A, others it's from straining to see the bad juju stuff that tries to grab a wing in the darkness… some nights it's from trying to find the stakes that mark where partial jobs start and end... and on some days it's just from trying to get through the special instructions of a rec in a dark cockpit… tonight I had one that said "please spray the 18 acres of Kale south of the Arugula and north of the Fennel" !!! Really??? first off who eats this shit? and second off, I sure would like to get that advisor in the airplane and see if he can show me the difference between Kale and Arugula while navigating the moonless night at 8' AGL and a buck fifty on the speedo… Oh and don't forget to either pull up or not cut the wire at the end of the field with the tail as you go under…
I stink… I stink, because when the sky went flat my windshield got covered in Malation, Lorsban, Dimethoate, and who knows how many other smelly toxins… and from the windscreen, they slide down the side of the cockpit… right to the vent for that wonderful air conditioner...
I am drenched in sweat (smelly sweat)
Did I mention I'm spent?

So after all that I sit here at the breakfast table eating a wilted Ceaser salad that my sweetie made last night, and pouring myself into a tall glass of Crown XR…

Someone who didn't know me better might actually think I'm bitter…
Someone who does know me better knows I could have just as easily poured myself into the cub after all that for a sunrise river flight…

It's either in your blood, or it's not…

Take care, Rob


Where do I sign up?
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Re: Getting Ag Time

old but good...

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Re: Getting Ag Time

Whee, I've been jumping through the hoops for the last year to start flying AG this season and can share what I've found. Some operators still have planes with round/piston engines and that will be the easiest to get insured in with lower time.

Most insurance companies want at least the following for someone starting out in turbine with no ag time; direct from insurance people:

1000TT
500TW
Some kind of Ag training
Turbine transition training
Certificate of competency from "chief pilot"
Clean record with FAA etc.
Deductibles will be higher for first 50 hours
Last edited by Skalywag on Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting Ag Time

One thing I'll never forget and would like to pass along is to never get too far behind the power curve/band (or whatever you call it) in the turbine at low altitude!! Especially in turns. I believe that's what might have happened to a good friend of ours near Glenns Ferry a few years ago. He was waiting to land to reload and and might have stalled close to the ground and of coarse the spoil up is slower in a turbine. Didn't have enough time to recover from the stall. I didn't know the pilot, but just hearing how great of a guy he was kinda tore me up for a while.
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Re: Getting Ag Time

There is still a low end, but it is hard as well. You can buy a Pawnee for what you'll put into ag school training. There are still small farmers and out of the way big farmers who spray what they can with ground rigs because the big airplanes won't come. Lots of operators require a 5,000 gal tanker of Jet A to be sitting there. That doesn't get you turbine time or a lot of money. But you get a lot of really good experience. Any old crop duster, like me, can train you. Doesn't even need to be an instructor. That is fly by night (just a phrase, don't go there) but it will get you started fairly cheap. I had VA for the ag school and over 2,000 turbine hours in Army helicopter, but I never bothered with turbine airplanes. I really didn't want to go that fast and worry about dinging a $25,000 prop. And I knew what the Army spent on maintenance. I grew up in agriculture and didn't want to just fly over a field and send the farmer a bill. A lot of dry land spraying, now that animal and cereal crops are so valuable is co-op work where the farmer never sees the pilot. If you work small airplanes and get to know them, they will take care of you in good and bad years. You might find that you don't want to move up to a SEAT job. "SEAT" is misleading for old guys. When you flew for a big operator with several ag airplanes, it was called 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and so on "seat." 2nd and the other "seats" didn't crank until 1st seat was covered up.
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Re: Getting Ag Time

UngaWunga wrote:old but good...


That's one of my favorite aviation videos. I watch it every couple months.
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Re: Getting Ag Time

rw2 wrote:
UngaWunga wrote:old but good...


That's one of my favorite aviation videos. I watch it every couple months.


I wonder how his life and heath turned out when he got older (if he got much older). Or if he had any kids born with 3 eyes, 6 legs and webbed feet. Chronic exposure to the nasty chemicals of those days, is bound to come back and haunt you.
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Re: Getting Ag Time

Sidewinder wrote:I wonder how his life and heath turned out when he got older (if he got much older). Or if he had any kids born with 3 eyes, 6 legs and webbed feet. Chronic exposure to the nasty chemicals of those days, is bound to come back and haunt you.


Yeah, he was flying in an era of much nastier stuff (not that I'd gargle with todays chemicals). The comments section on that video has had some input from people wondering who he was and giving clues. So far, no one has turned him up. Maybe he did finally move to the beach as he said he wanted to.
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Re: Getting Ag Time

A s contact says, go find an operator who'll either hire you to load and train you, and/or find a Pawnee/AgTruck and buy it and find that operator that'll put you on his certificate and train you.

Several operators I know have brought new pilots on first as loaders, then ground applicators, all the while giving them some training, then putting them in a small plane for a season or two, then to a round engine plane for a season or two, then turbine.

I know of one big operator who has an all turbine fleet, with one exception: a 400 Pawnee, which they use to break in new pilots. All their Pilos load for a few seasons before they fly. A very structured program, and it works. Two of my students are flying for them, and both those kids are excellent flyers.

I have several ex students who've gone this route while finishing their Ag college degree. It works, but it takes a few years.

And, by the way, there are some SEAT airplanes out there that aren't turbines....Dromeders, with PZL engines. But most now are going turbine.
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Re: Getting Ag Time

Whee,

My wife says I live with my foot in my mouth. I looked back to see where you live. If you go to the diner to talk to the farmers (I am a hillbilly) don't call them farmers. People who grow fruit, vegetables, and other people crops call themselves "growers." Still good guys.
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Re: Getting Ag Time

I'd love to get started spraying myself. But the big farmers around here just dont use planes. Unless its a really wet year they are just too inefficient. Last summer I did 2700 acres in 26 hrs with the high clearance. This summer will be even better as we'll have a bigger tank and wider booms on this years sprayer. And we can get pretty much anyone to run a high clearance sprayer. With gps and auto flow rates and auto on/off booms its pretty easy...
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Re: Getting Ag Time

A1Skinner wrote:I'd love to get started spraying myself. But the big farmers around here just dont use planes. Unless its a really wet year they are just too inefficient. Last summer I did 2700 acres in 26 hrs with the high clearance. This summer will be even better as we'll have a bigger tank and wider booms on this years sprayer. And we can get pretty much anyone to run a high clearance sprayer. With gps and auto flow rates and auto on/off booms its pretty easy...


Yep, right up till it rains.....

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Re: Getting Ag Time

It has a lot to do with the soils as well. But I can be spraying within an hr or so of rain. With the wider tires it hardly makes ruts. And we arent as affected by thw wind in ground machines either. So theres a lot of time that we are going that the planes can't...
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Re: Getting Ag Time

Hey Skinny. Have you ever run into these guys in your neck of the woods. I think their based in Northern Saskabush

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Re: Getting Ag Time

delete again.....
Last edited by Sidewinder on Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting Ag Time

and delete again. Note to self. No drinking and posting
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Re: Getting Ag Time

delete
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Re: Getting Ag Time

They are in Sask. Watched that show a bit. We are up in Northern Alberta and the spray planes are far and few between. We farm about 50000 acres and aerial spraying is really just not efficient enough for us. If it was you'd better believe we'd be doing it...
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