Fortunately, the prop hit a concrete filled steel post, designed to keep idiots from running into the fuel tanks.

is somebody insinuating this guy is an idiot? Hand propped with throttle 1/2 open?

Because Murphy and I were really close, I always tied the tail down when alone.

Glidergeek wrote:Fortunately, the prop hit a concrete filled steel post, designed to keep idiots from running into the fuel tanks.

is somebody insinuating this guy is an idiot? Hand propped with throttle 1/2 open?

For the vast majority of my flying life I have been prohibited from hand propping by my club. Nonetheless, I still knew that this is not SOP. I *really* don't like to pile onto a fellow pilot who had a bad day, but I just can't come up with a way to excuse this one.

Used to hand-prop my Pitts back and forth across the continent. Always tied the tail unless I was the one sitting inside. Had a dead battery in the Citabria last summer going flying with my 20 year old son, so had to hand bomb it. Told him to sit in the back and hold the brakes and showed him how the throttle worked, then went around to the front to do the honours. Thought about it for a millisecond and then decided to tie the tail anyway, just in case. No risk no regrets.

Can you imagine the conflagration had the posts not been there? Wow!

I haven't done a lot of hand-propping, and none in ages, but each time I did, there was a qualified person at the controls--which include the brakes!

There's a fellow who regularly refuels at the self-serve pumps at GXY with a Champ that he hand-props, without any chocks or tail tie down. Although every time I've seen him start it, the engine seems to start at a slow idle, I've often wondered what would happen if he failed to retard the throttle enough. Scary thought.

Cary

There was a guy who hand jammed a Baby Great Lakes, here in Honolulu, he used a polypropylene line to tie the tail down. Polypropylene degrades with UV Sunlight and breaks in a matter of months in the Tropics. The stuff should have a warning label on it.

The bi-plane spun left and hit the hangar door. Everyone walked away. It was experimental so it was "repaired" and flying in a few weeks.

Wow!

Two years ago, a local pilot hand propped his Super Cub on skis, one wing was still tied down, secured to the ice. He had left the throttle open too far, when the plane started, it went around in circles with him holding on to the strut, it finally threw him off, broke the rope, took off and crashed into shore. He ended up with major structural damage and had to replace the engine/prop as well.

The lesson: always tie the tail.

Steve

For those of you pontificating as to how WE folks who MUST hand prop for each start should always tie the tail down, perhaps you should actually get out and visit a few places some of us fly, or perhaps try flying an airplane which has no electrical system.

I would suggest that the "flight instructor" who posted that blog has no clue how to hand start an engine. What I hear from most such folks, including at my last place of employ....one of the biggest flight training operations on earth, is that hand propping is dangerous, and should never be attempted. I guess those folks have never found themselves in the middle of nowhere, with a dead battery, the sun setting and the ambient temperature dropping fast. I've been there.

My airplane has no electrical system. My hangar is in the middle of a T Hangar building....and there is no place close to tie down, pavement everywhere. And, in the midst of the Missouri Breaks or a thousand other places, am I supposed to sink a major anchor, then start the plane while tied down, then, while the engine idles, remove that anchor, and load up? I generally fly alone, so having someone else to sit in the seat would be a rare occurance.

This is a TRAINING issue, folks. Ever notice that the vast majority of these incidents involve a plane with a starter, and rarely involve an airplane with NO electrical system? I would venture that the vast majority of folks who get into one of these hand propping incidents have never had any instruction on how to SAFELY hand prop an airplane, and for the vast majority, it's probably their first time ever hand propping an airplane. Hand propping is not rocket science, but there are some very basic tenets that you simply must abide by. If you follow those, hand propping need not be any more hazardous than flying itself.

For years, when I was checking out new pilots in our airplanes, I ensured that each of them got the opportunity, after proper training, to hand start the airplanes we were flying. If you fly in the back country long enough, you're going to find yourself having to hand prop an airplane some time. You need to know how to do that SAFELY, and, sometimes, there's simply no way to tie it down during the process. So, get some good training FIRST, in the proper procedure.

One issue I see frequently is pilots with starters in their aircraft who obviously don't know how to start their engine.....sitting on a ramp, grinding that battery down with the starter, grinding and grinding, etc. one of these days, those folks are going to wind up with a dead battery somewhere they really don't want to sleep. So the first task should be for you to learn to start your engine. Then learn to safely hand prop it.....just in case.

Come visit, and I'd be happy to provide that basic training. I've propped about every airplane type I've flown and engines up to P & W 1340 radial (easier than you think).

Get some training, prop a few airplanes....it may be an eye opener. In the meantime, those of us with only an Armstrong starter will continue to fly, hand propping every time we fly.

MTV

mtv wrote:For those of you pontificating as to how WE folks who MUST hand prop for each start should always tie the tail down, perhaps you should actually get out and visit a few places some of us fly, or perhaps try flying an airplane which has no electrical system.

I would suggest that the "flight instructor" who posted that blog has no clue how to hand start an engine. What I hear from most such folks, including at my last place of employ....one of the biggest flight training operations on earth, is that hand propping is dangerous, and should never be attempted. I guess those folks have never found themselves in the middle of nowhere, with a dead battery, the sun setting and the ambient temperature dropping fast. I've been there.

My airplane has no electrical system. My hangar is in the middle of a T Hangar building....and there is no place close to tie down, pavement everywhere. And, in the midst of the Missouri Breaks or a thousand other places, am I supposed to sink a major anchor, then start the plane while tied down, then, while the engine idles, remove that anchor, and load up? I generally fly alone, so having someone else to sit in the seat would be a rare occurance.

This is a TRAINING issue, folks. Ever notice that the vast majority of these incidents involve a plane with a starter, and rarely involve an airplane with NO electrical system? I would venture that the vast majority of folks who get into one of these hand propping incidents have never had any instruction on how to SAFELY hand prop an airplane, and for the vast majority, it's probably their first time ever hand propping an airplane. Hand propping is not rocket science, but there are some very basic tenets that you simply must abide by. If you follow those, hand propping need not be any more hazardous than flying itself.

For years, when I was checking out new pilots in our airplanes, I ensured that each of them got the opportunity, after proper training, to hand start the airplanes we were flying. If you fly in the back country long enough, you're going to find yourself having to hand prop an airplane some time. You need to know how to do that SAFELY, and, sometimes, there's simply no way to tie it down during the process. So, get some good training FIRST, in the proper procedure.

One issue I see frequently is pilots with starters in their aircraft who obviously don't know how to start their engine.....sitting on a ramp, grinding that battery down with the starter, grinding and grinding, etc. one of these days, those folks are going to wind up with a dead battery somewhere they really don't want to sleep. So the first task should be for you to learn to start your engine. Then learn to safely hand prop it.....just in case.

Come visit, and I'd be happy to provide that basic training. I've propped about every airplane type I've flown and engines up to P & W 1340 radial (easier than you think).

Get some training, prop a few airplanes....it may be an eye opener. In the meantime, those of us with only an Armstrong starter will continue to fly, hand propping every time we fly.

MTV

Used to hand prop my -11 all the time, no electrical system. Never tied the tail down once. Guess I am one of the lucky few who had someone to teach me how to do it right. You need to have your head in the game but it isn't rocket science.

I bet the Cherokee dude doesn't do that again. I'm sure the blogger who made an example of the screw up sure feels better about himself now.

"there but for the grace of God go I"

MTV makes some very good points. Training and judgement is called for in all aspects of aviation. Some of us old guys, who have hand propped many different airplanes and are just enough of a screw up and know it, take every precaution practicable when handling very dangerous stuff. Not calling others a screw up. If you are one, however, you need to know you are and take precautions. I hated it but dealt with props. I was successful in avoiding retractable gear almost entirely.

A lot of engines are easier to start from outside where you can see, hear, and smell what is going on.

Well I agree with MTV all the way. But I got to say it.....I'll bet the perp in the Cherokee had a 3rd class medical......

wish they would teach handpropping during primary training, seems to be avoided most places.

Hand engine starting is like tail spinning. Used to be required. But, not anymore for licensing (except CFI and Brown's seaplane Base).

Good for instructors. The insurance is less!

Don't ask don't tell. I now give seminars

Tim

Had to flip the 3 blade from the back on straight floats one time. Luckily the PW radial spins easy. As MTV said, it was getting cold and I wanted a warm bed not a cold Beaver. Refrain from R rated replies. Well, on second thought, go for it.

I don't recall ever being on an airport when I needed to prop my old plane. I always blocked the tires with something laying around, or at least rolled the wheels into a rut in order to improvise a little safety.

Nothing worse than a cold Beaver