qmdv wrote:

Don't ask don't tell. I now give seminars

Tim

yeah but that wasn't from hand propping.... I take it that was Tipsy's taxi....

iceman wrote:

qmdv wrote:

Don't ask don't tell. I now give seminars

Tim

yeah but that wasn't from hand propping.... I take it that was Tipsy's taxi....

Looks like it hit a chain link fence Would not be the first time.

When insurance co asked if I were pilot in command, I said it was Tipsy


Tim

If you got a cold beaver yer doin' it wrong.

I started out in my j3 by chocking the wheels. My chocks have a cord tether so I can pull them in the plane from the controls when I'm safely in and on the brakes That lasted about a week. Follow the rules and be in position - and there is no problem. I love it when some CAP guy comes out and volunteers to lay his weight on the elevator so my plane doesn't fly away from me.

Always gotta be vigilent. Just like flying it all the way to the hangar - make damn sure of your throttle position and priming technique is correct before you lay hand to prop. If everyone knew how to hand prop the world would be a better place.

flightlogic wrote:Had to flip the 3 blade from the back on straight floats one time. Luckily the PW radial spins easy. As MTV said, it was getting cold and I wanted a warm bed not a cold Beaver. Refrain from R rated replies. Well, on second thought, go for it.

It seems like the whole "hand propping is dangerous, wildly dangerous", thing is just like a tail dragger being dangerous. Back when every one flew TD and hand propped, it was accepted and a given. Now, except for a few Luddites and malcontents, it has largely fallen by the wayside and seems to be viewed as some kind of eccentric wild ass behavior. And yes I am kidding about the malcontents and Luddites remark. I loved propping my T-Craft, and for that matter my 2 stroke powered Kitfox years ago as the starter kept giving me problems. MTV as usual nailed it: having help, chocks, tail tied down etc. etc. all sounds good, but just isn't gonna fly in the real world when out screwing around, proper technique will work every time. Pilots like this bozo give the practice a bad name, too bad.

I hand-prop an O-200 Cub every so often, alone, not a big deal. I had one 30 second lesson well into my flying career and whatever I learned seems to work. It has yet to fly away without me. Oh the stories I've heard though...

Now, hand-propping a big bore 6 seems a little more intimidating. I suppose they turn the same speed though, maybe just a little more oomph?

The trick with hand propping is to let the impulse of the mag do the work..... Non impulse mag equipped airplanes are a bitch to get started....
I propped a Jungman with the radial once.... 90 inch wood prop... Started with a slow pull through with just two fingers on the tip of the blade... Once that impulse fired she was running... Same thing with my cub... Get her up on the compression and pull her through till the impulse kicks and she will go...

Brian

Zzz wrote:Now, hand-propping a big bore 6 seems a little more intimidating. I suppose they turn the same speed though, maybe just a little more oomph?

I am keen to try it with mine, just so I know I can, but yeah - it's safe to say I am sufficiently intimidated.
You really need to lean heavily on it with all that resistance, and I am worried about getting my hand / arm clear quickly enough.

The nastiest I find about hand propping is some of the trailing edges are damned sharp. Anyone successfully hand bomb the prop on a 540. I gave it a go for a lark, let's just say I did not have the ooompf for it. I think you'd have to have the arms of King Kong.
Shot this guy doing his 182 one day in the middle of nowhere with a dead batt. Hard to see but he did have someone at the controls.

Engine compression is a bigger issue than number of cylinders or hp. That's why propping a Pratt and Whitney 985 is fairly easy.....they are supercharged, thus low compression.

That 182 propping video illustrates why it's so important to have your prop properly indexed for hand starting. With the prop indexed at 12/6, like that 182, you pretty much have to prop from front......which is harder to do on floats, for example

There are other reasons why propping from behind is BETTER, though.

Get that prop indexed at 10/4 o'clock (viewed from front) and it's easy to prop from back OR front.

MTV

This! When I bought my cub it the prop was indexed incorrectly - first thing that had to be fixed.

mtv wrote:Get that prop indexed at 10/4 o'clock (viewed from front) and it's easy to prop from back OR front.

MTV

Like I said, it's been a lot of years since I've done any hand-propping, but I've started 160hp Lycomings in 172s and 470 Continentals in 182s, and once started Betty Stewart's Lycoming powered Pitts--another story.

But the most interesting way of hand-propping I've observed occurred at OSH in 1979. Family and I'd flown there in our TR182. I had an IFR plan to leave, and the deal was to call clearance, then wait for them to call back with the clearance. I didn't have a handheld, so I left the master on with everything but one radio turned off. But by the time clearance called half an hour later and we were ready to go, the battery had run down enough that the 540 wouldn't turn over.

But others had seen the predicament, and this short fellow with incredible broad shoulders and arms bigger around than my thighs came over. "Is this a Lycoming?" "Yup." "OK, get her ready to go--we'll get it started." We then did the usual "switch off" as he planted himself in front of the prop. But then instead of "contact", he hollered, "Hit the starter", and as I did, he pulled the prop through, one hand over the next, essentially helping the starter, until it started! He then backed up, gave me a thumbs up, and he didn't look like he'd exerted himself at all.

Probably not the MTV method, right?

Cary

mtv wrote:
Get that prop indexed at 10/4 o'clock (viewed from front) and it's easy to prop from back OR front.

MTV

Sounds like a good idea, when I installed my 2-blade prop (onto Lyc) the flange allowed two choices e.g. 12-6 or 6-12 (I can't recall the actual position). So I had to think about that one for a while
I guess a three blade would give more options, but also another blade chasing more closely behind your fingers.

Cary wrote:But others had seen the predicament, and this short fellow with incredible broad shoulders and arms bigger around than my thighs came over. "Is this a Lycoming?" "Yup." "OK, get her ready to go--we'll get it started." We then did the usual "switch off" as he planted himself in front of the prop. But then instead of "contact", he hollered, "Hit the starter", and as I did, he pulled the prop through, one hand over the next, essentially helping the starter, until it started! He then backed up, gave me a thumbs up, and he didn't look like he'd exerted himself at all.

Cary

I have often wondered about the "starter-assisted" hand prop. We've never had a totally flat battery, always just flat enough that the starter wouldn't quite get it past the compression stroke. Seems like it would just need a little nudge at that point, instead of a heavy pull... but seems like it's probably not the safer option of the two? Thoughts?

Depending on the state of the battery, timing is critical using the starter assist method. Used it on a 172 . The delay thru the compression strokes was a second or two. You wanna get in and out as quick as you can before the prop flips thru a compression stroke by itself or the next blade could strike the back of your hand. Go in as soon as the prop slows and push it thru aggressively, sweeping the hand out of the disc and away from the arc.

Edit. Aggressive is perhaps the wrong word. Hand propping requires firm and deliberate action. Hesitation from excessive fear is when accidents happen.

My sudo "Hand Propping Rig" is...Portable generator, =27 LBS, 6 amp charger, and 2.5 gallons of MoGas ( do not leave to the backcountry without one, opinion)

Charges my G30 battery reasonably fast

Easy for pre-heats when no AC

Good for SatPhones (only last about 24-30 on a charges)

Great for USB devices

No Coleman lantern needed, I just bring my shop lights and a spare bulb

Leaks a little oil

Is that the Yamaha, Ted? I've heard good things about them, supposedly quite light.

Battson,

What engine/prop do you have? On Lycoming O 360s with constant speed props, I've been told that 12/6 is the only APPROVED indexing, but that is not correct. That is specific to a couple aircraft models, and even those are approved at 10/4 in the TC.

The only issue with these engines and Hartzell CS props is that you have to press out and re install the prop bushings. Some mechanics figure that's a PITA so they'll tell you it's not legal to change the indexing......hogwash, find a better mechanic.

I've been told by some folks that the 12/6 indexing reduces vibration......and that too is hogwash. At one point, our mech didn't want to re index for this reason. We had a vibration survey done, with the prop in each indexing. Turned out the vibration could easily be made the same by simple balancing.

It looks like you're experimental, in which case, do what you like.

And, yes, I've hand propped engines with "starter assist", and it can be easier. No more risk of getting your hand whacked as compared to just propping it.

MTV

Yes Zzz, a Yamaha EF1000iS. I really like it. Fits in the Scout like a leather "glove" and is really quiet.

Have the EF2000iS in Hawaii. My wife requires me to take a portable backup power supply when we go on the ocean too. Even though in 40 years have never needed it (knock on wood).

One of those cheap booster jump boxes from Harbor Freight would be a good option to pack along into the boonies, if your bird is a beast to prop. Would be nice to find one that wasn't made in China.

Sidewinder wrote:One of those cheap booster jump boxes from Harbor Freight would be a good option to pack along into the boonies, if your bird is a beast to prop. Would be nice to find one that wasn't made in China.

I used to think those booster boxes were for dweebs but, I have one and it has come in handy. It even has a 12V port for the cellular telephone and/or iPAD charging! Been carrying one on really long trips in the truck (even with portable generator).

Have NOT jumped my aircraft with one but, who knows? It could be a life saver.

Needs to be charged every 5-6 months to top it off. Takes about 45 minuted.