[url https://hartzellprop.com/wp-content/upl ... -R00-W.pdf][/url]

A 'must read' if a Hartzell prop is on your aircraft, regardless of who maintains the aircraft YOU fly. I expect we could see a few aircraft accidents in the next few years linked to mixing incompatible prop greases during scheduled aircraft maintenance.

PapernScissors wrote:[url https://hartzellprop.com/wp-content/upl ... -R00-W.pdf][/url]

I expect we could see a few aircraft accidents in the next few years linked to mixing incompatible prop greases during scheduled aircraft maintenance.

Why would you expect to see accidents from wrong grease?

Yes there will be a huge uptick in accidents from this. Really what happens with incompatible greases is the can separate or go clay like. It means they kind of stop doing the grease thing, lubricate. So what does that mean; wear on the races and potential cracks in the hubs and blades from fretting. Not so good. Lots of folks pass on their prop overhaul and want to keep running them indefinitely or until they get problems. The problem is usually manifested on a prop by it shedding parts or leaving the motor entirely. So what is pointed out is that the only way to clean a prop with incompatible grease is to disassemble it. Sounds like almost what they do at overhaul.

What happens when you shed a prop:
An acquaintance was returning from the Bahamas in a 402C. Suddenly one of the engines started to wildly over-rev and he had a yaw corresponding to that engine. When he reduced power and looked out to the engine, it was sans-prop. Ok, it looks like a regular single engine flight, without the bother of having to feather the prop. To make things interesting, he noticed a dot that was enlarging and coming right at him. Suddenly it was the whirling blades of death prop, now frisbee like thing. It went over top of him by inches. He did make it back safely and immediately went shopping for new underwear.

Is there any way to tell if there is incompatible grease used just through inspection. My prop is long over due for an overhaul. It has about 900 hours on it right now in 12 years. I have been waiting on it because it has been very functional and the blades are in perfect shape. I did notice a modest amount of grease on one of the blades the other day after a flight. I had been making a lot of power changes that day. Not sure if that would throw a little grease out from the hub. I brought it up to my IA and we discussed sending the prop in for overhaul on the annual - due in a couple of months. Scary story in the 402. I don't even want to think about making a forced landing in a prop-less 180. I may be doing the annual a little early this year. Per another post - I think my Carb needs some work too.

Josh

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The good news if you own a Hartzell propeller is that fairly soon they'll issue an AD which will require overhaul and/or some arcane inspection every 100 hours. Goes in for inspection/overhaul and the prop shop will condemn the hub due to corrosion.

They got me on this twice. Twice bitten, never again. I do not like Hartzell products.

Buy an MT prop.

MTV

No Zirk’s on my MT which means this is a non issue on my MT.

I was at Hartzell last year and they made it VERY clear to me and a buddy that you do not want to over grease a Trailblazer prop, maybe other Hartzell’s but we were specifically talking about Trailblazers at the time. They said over greasing will require tear down and reseal at a minimum. Make sure your mechanic is aware of this if you have a Trailblazer.

Kurt

The prop hub should be clearly placarded with the grease type and any semi intelligent mechanic would (should) check the applicable Hartzell Owners Manual before lubricating

Also be aware of the temp limits if your prop is lubricated with Grease 5

mtv wrote: The good news if you own a Hartzell propeller is that fairly soon they'll issue an AD which will require overhaul and/or some arcane inspection every 100 hours. Goes in for inspection/overhaul and the prop shop will condemn the hub due to corrosion.
They got me on this twice. Twice bitten, never again. I do not like Hartzell products. ...

I know several people this has happened to.
That's why I'm a McCauley fan.

This is for MTV. Neither Hartzell or the prop shop caused the corrosion. The corrosion existed with or without the AD, the AD just required you to have the propeller looked at. A hub with corrosion beyond repairable limits has always been considered unairworthy. I have had a McCauley hub condemned for corrosion and a McCauley blade repaired for corrosion in a retainer groove with 238 hours on the prop.

So my question for you Mike is would you prefer to not know that you had a unairworthy component on your airplane because if you did it would cost you money or would you be happy that it is found before failure? Yea, I thought that if you thought about it you would like to know rather than put people at risk.

Tim

I never ever grease Hartzell Compact Hub props. They get overhauled every 6 to 10 years, and I have NEVER seen them lose any grease. They're always full. If your Hartzell is losing grease, it has a cracked hub.

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On the Hartzell compact hubs on the PA-30, at least, they shave some of the hub ID every time they OVH. The 3rd time that’s done, the prop becomes unserviceable, in my experience. IRAN’s for Part 91 operators are less expensive.

bat443 wrote:This is for MTV. Neither Hartzell or the prop shop caused the corrosion. The corrosion existed with or without the AD, the AD just required you to have the propeller looked at. A hub with corrosion beyond repairable limits has always been considered unairworthy. I have had a McCauley hub condemned for corrosion and a McCauley blade repaired for corrosion in a retainer groove with 238 hours on the prop.

So my question for you Mike is would you prefer to not know that you had a unairworthy component on your airplane because if you did it would cost you money or would you be happy that it is found before failure? Yea, I thought that if you thought about it you would like to know rather than put people at risk.

Tim

Tim,

Your first sentence is inherently wrong: Hartzell designed and built these props. If their designs are so flawed that they corrode/crack/etc on these small engines, my choice is to take my prop business elsewhere, which I have now done on two airplanes I’ve owned.

Your question is beyond insulting, but to answer your question: I’ve chosen twice to REPLACE, at significant expense, A Hartzell prop rather than REPLACE a hub and wind up with another Hartzell junk prop. The very reason I replaced those props had nothing to do with cost....it had to do with in my experience Hartzell compact hubs are doomed to fail, either from poor design or Hartzell issued AD.

Your mileage may vary, but I don’t care. Keeping my passengers and myself safe is my focus, not saving a few bucks.

MTV

mtv wrote:

bat443 wrote:This is for MTV. Neither Hartzell or the prop shop caused the corrosion. The corrosion existed with or without the AD, the AD just required you to have the propeller looked at. A hub with corrosion beyond repairable limits has always been considered unairworthy. I have had a McCauley hub condemned for corrosion and a McCauley blade repaired for corrosion in a retainer groove with 238 hours on the prop.

So my question for you Mike is would you prefer to not know that you had a unairworthy component on your airplane because if you did it would cost you money or would you be happy that it is found before failure? Yea, I thought that if you thought about it you would like to know rather than put people at risk.

Tim

Tim,

Your first sentence is inherently wrong: Hartzell designed and built these props. If their designs are so flawed that they corrode/crack/etc on these small engines, my choice is to take my prop business elsewhere, which I have now done on two airplanes I’ve owned.

Your question is beyond insulting, but to answer your question: I’ve chosen twice to REPLACE, at significant expense, A Hartzell prop rather than REPLACE a hub and wind up with another Hartzell junk prop. The very reason I replaced those props had nothing to do with cost....it had to do with in my experience Hartzell compact hubs are doomed to fail, either from poor design or Hartzell issued AD.

Your mileage may vary, but I don’t care. Keeping my passengers and myself safe is my focus, not saving a few bucks.

MTV

But I think that's what Tim is asking Mike. I've had McCauleys that were junked because of corrosion. Only reason we caught it is because of our 10yr prop O/H requirement in Canada. Still no AD on Macs. At least with Hartzell you know about potential issues. That said, I'm putting a C402 on my 206. I like how they pull and I'm getting a great deal on it. But it's not because its safer then a Hartzell by any means.

We all have our personal experience to work from. I stated my personal experience.

You can take from that what you like. I’ve put a lot of time on various prop manufacturers products. Hartzell is the one that’s bit me, and more than once. The only one. Not to say there aren’t issues with other props, mind. I’ve just had better luck with others.

And, note that at least one of the ADs that were issued on Hartzell Compact prop hubs featured cracked hubs, followed by failure, and possible loss of a blade in flight. Give that a little thought when you’re shopping for props.....

I've had a small part of a blade depart a prop in flight, and that was enough of that sort of experience for this kid. Closed throttle instantly, shut down engine, and landed almost right below on a gravel bar. Two legs of the engine mount were broken.

So, again, my point was in fact that I chose another prop, for safety, not $$ savings.

And as I’ve said many times.....your mileage may vary.

MTV