Have a friend that has to sell his plane. It is a 170B newly restored, very very good. Paint and upholstery 10, O360 with less than 100 hrs, new contant speed prop, Stol kit with droop wing tips, F Atlee Dodge fold up seats, bubble windows, Ponk legs, 8.00 mains, and good avionics (kx155).

He is asking 70 K. He is a highly motivated seller.

I could probably get 45K for the 182B. It has 1550 on the engine and the upholstery sucks. It does have fold up seats, is IFR, and has extended bagage. The 182B is a great plane but not looking forward to spending 24K on engine overhaul.

It is tempting. downside is that I only have 1 hr tailwheel time so the insurance would be tough. Even with that engine upgrade the 182B will do much better in the hauling mode. Also I would be at the bottom of the learning curve when it comes to landing.

What think you?

Tim

Buy a tailwheel it will make you a better pilot. That’s just my opinion. When I bought my 170 I had 0 tailwheel time. My insurance was about $1300 a year. I just renewed with 270 hours of tailwheel time and it is $1106 a year. As for the performance of each plane, every pilot on here will have a different opinion. Just buy what you want and enjoy it. I love my 170 so I am a little prejudice.

I have about 750 hrs in my 182B and am really familliar with it. It is a great plane with plenty of power but like everbody else that has never flown a tailwheel plane, I have this itch that is hard not to scratch.

Tim

I have had both 170 (835 hours) and 182(1250 hours) and I like both. My 170 was the original Cont. 0300 engine. So I probablly aren't much help. I know the 182 is a lot more aircraft than the 170. It will carry a bigger load. As for the tail wheel I don't think you would have any trouble with that. You just learn what those rudder pedals down there are for.You have to be on them and keep the little wheel in the back at all times. It doesn't like to be back there and will, if let alone, try to get out in front. I am sorry I am not much help. By the way I learned to fly in the 170. My partner and I bought one and he (CFI) taught me to fly it. Bob

I may also be prejudice but i would buy the 170 it will haul almost as much and go almost as fast and the matinence and fuel diference will be huge! It all comes down to fun per dollar.

Not meaning to throw a wrench in the works but a guy can find a decent 180 for nearly the same price. Just food for thought.

Hey Tim
The 170 w/180/CSP is my favorite. I prefer McCauley over Hartzell. but if the plane is that good, I wouldn't let the prop stop me. They are a great performing plane, especially light. They were getting pretty pricey when I was looking and pretty hard to find a good one. Pay attention to the tailwheel spring, along with all the regular items. Pretty easy to put a simple centerstack in like Zane is doing if it doesn't have one. Not that hard to fly and a lot of fun. Much lighter on the controls than your 182.


That's my .02 Good luck Gary

I'd think very carefully about this trade in rides.

First, do you frequently or ever use the load hauling capability of the 182? If so, you will be mightily dissappointed with a 170. Very limited GW, very limited useful load.

Second, do you do much if any IFR? Again, if so, you'll wish you hadn't. Even if the 170 is IFR equipped, its not a great IFR machine.

Don't believe that you can just stick a center stack of radios in a 170, no sweat. There's a lot more to it than that, and panel space on 170's is very limited.

Also, don't buy that you can buy a GOOD 180 for $70 K. I'd say MAYBE, but not very likely. You can probably buy one with a lot of issues, but why go there.

The 170 is an honest airplane, and the 360 makes it perform very well. It is still going to be a LOT slower than that 182 is. So, think you're going to save on gas??? Don't bet on it. You'll be burning almost as much gas, but going 15 to 30 mph slower.

If none of that bothers you, go for it. Tailwheel experience isn't a pre requisite--find a good instructor, and pay em what they're worth to really wring you out.

MTV

mtv wrote:I'd think very carefully about this trade in rides.
You'll be burning almost as much gas, but going 15 to 30 mph slower.
MTV

Am thinking hard on it. I would not do it unless he came down in price a bit. Add a new engne to my plane and I am at about the same price as the 170. Living in California, I will have to add 7.25% to the price of the plane to figure what the true trade off cost would be.

Camping in my plane is kind of like camping with two Mules. Camping out of the 170 would be like camping with two burrows. And one of my son in laws weighs about 240.

I think the 170 with that engine will do about what my plane will do speed wise cus I have no wheel pants, big front tire and bigger mains.

I do stay current and usually do arround three IFR approaches a year. Nothing tough but getting through marine layers. I would miss that.

Oh by the way I figure that an early 180 with a run out engine is in the same ball park as this 170 price wise.

At least noboddy came back with "just buy a Maule"

Tim

I bought my 170A 2 years ago w/ 0 T/W time and only 90 hrs total. The learning curve isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. The 170 is your grandmas airplane at least w/ the 0-300 out front. Obviously you'll get better performace w/180hp. but the ground handling should be the same and it's very docile. The nicest thing about the the 170 over speed economy or payload is that big rudder. During my training i let it get pretty far out in some nasty crosswinds but always had enough rudder to bring it back.

For my money in your situation i'd go w/ the 170 just because they'll treat you nice on the ground. All you need is to freak yourself out in a tailwheel airplane one time and your confidence goes right out then window. Then you'll have a wonderful airplane you make excuses not to fly.

That being said I'd would also reccomend you take MTV's advice 170's are good at everything but great at nothing...

shortfielder wrote: Pretty easy to put a simple centerstack in like Zane is doing if it doesn't have one.

Gary, just want to clarify that I am not doing the center stack mod. I am just replacing my shock mount panel with a new layout to accommodate my engine analyzer, fuel flow, and panel dock. The real center stack mod requires replacement of the yoke to a Y-shape from late models, and is kind of a pain in the butt.

Tim,
In all your previous posts you've sounded pretty happy with your 182.
This sort of sounds like a happily married man who meets a saucy new thing at work and starts to wonder if throwing in ten years of marriage is suddenly a good idea.

What you have right now is probably real close to the most plane per dollar out there as far as what it will do and what it costs. Getting a substantially less capable plane so you can fly a tailwheel sounds a bit dodgy to me. I'd be more inclined to suggest you buy a small two seat TW plane to scratch that itch.

If you look at what it would cost to get into that 170, I'd bet you could take the same money and pimp your 182 out pretty nicely and save yourself the frustration of giving the state all that sales tax. And lets not forget the insurance...that's going to cost you extra, too.

For absolutely no good reason I just don't like nosewheel planes. If I did I'd have a hell of a lot more planes to choose from, and at better prices. If you want to put it into perspective, look around and see what sort of 180HP CS Skyhawk you can buy for $70K...I think you'll find they are a lot newer and a lot better equipped than your friend's 170B.

That said, if you don't buy the 170...let me know who your friend is...I've been looking for the RIGHT big engine 170B for a couple years now. I'm serious about that...

Hammer wrote:Let me know who your friend is...I've been looking for the RIGHT big engine 170B for a couple years now. I'm serious about that...

Is that Dan Wilson's airplane?

Gump

Hammer is totally on target. The 170 decision for me was based on the fact that i wanted a fairly inexpensive-to-own taildragger with some decent load hauling capability. When I say that I mean load volume, not necessarily weight, compared to say...a Citabria.

While more power is always good, I am happy with the fuel burn of the C-145. I don't foresee ever converting this bird to 180hp. It is a great 1 person + tiny girlfriend plane.

170's are overvalued, and the fleet is old. It takes a person who is particularly in love with the type and the aesthetics to buy one.

They do feel light on the controls though, and are a bit lighter than a comparable 172.

If you want a taildragger, just get to work converting your 182 and be done with it! It's totally irrational, but looking for rationale in flying and airplanes is just silly...

qmdv,

I am curious, if you don’t mind, what do you pay for insurance a year on your 182? Everybody says the insurance on the 170 is so much more expensive, I was just wondering. Thanks!

I worked airplanes around Alaska for a number of years. Much of that time was in Cubs, Huskys, 180's, 185's and Beavers. When the time came to replace a 185, a collective decision was made to replace it with a 206. That wasn't my first choice, but this decision was made based on logic, and the 206 won that argument.

After a couple months flying that 206, including on and off gravel bars and floats, I couldn't imagine having to go back to working a 185. Oh, I flew 185's after that, and I'm certainly not afraid of them.

When I moved to MN from AK, I looked real hard for a good 182. A few years ago, the market was pretty soft for 182s and you could get a really good one for not much money, but in the meantime, 182s became much more popular again, and prices went up substantially.

Then I got to MN. In much the same situation as you, only reversed, I'd have had to hand the state a bunch of sales tax $$ to go to a 182. If it hadn't been for that issue, I'd be flying a 182 right now, and happily.

Unless you are doing skis or some pretty hard core off airport stuff, the 182 is a great do-it-all airplane, in my opinion.

And, the first time you're stuck under one of those marine layers, fidgeting, you'll probably regret your decision all over again.

I have a 170 and it's a nice little plane. I GUARANTEE your 182 is WAAAAAYYY faster than my 170. So, you'll get places for less gas money than I can. The 170 might be a little cheaper to maintain, but they are all OLD airplanes, and things wear out. Seems like every annual, I'm replacing some basic item or two.

I'd take that $$ difference and put it to good use on the machine you have, and enjoy it even more than you have already. I'll bet if you ask around the right places, you can find a good engine guy who can field major that engine for less than you may think.

Either way, you probably won't go wrong.

If it was up to me, I could care less if I ever flew a tailwheel airplane again. There is no longer a mystique there, merely a liability.

Except on skis, and I've flown 182s and 206s on skis as well.

MTV

If you get rid of the 182 you will regret it, I promise you. Buy a cheap 120 or 140, play with it for a year, sell it and get your money back, but keep the 182.
The 180 and 182 are the smallest real useable Cessna's. By that I mean you have decent speed and a decent carrying capacity. That 170 is more money and less airplane.

Hey Zane

Sorry about that. For some reason I was thinking you were doing the center stack. It has probably been 17-18 years since I did mine, but I kept the T-post. Minimal radios. I had a Narco 810, 2morrow loran and transponder. Even built a cubby hole under the radios for my flight guide and a couple charts. Worked well and I thought that it was pretty easy to do.

Later G

Just go for it Tim,

I had a 1800TT 182, I put a new engine and radios in it and it was still a pig.

Way to much fuel for the speed, and I never used the load hauling capability.

MTV

Make up your mind man, on the 180 thread you said you would be flying a 180 happily.

You shouldn't feel a bit bad about giving the state some money, they have to have money to keep spraying those mosquitoes in your back yard somehow

If you look at TAP under "Stinson". Hopped up Stinson 108's are available powered by 180 Lyc,200 Lyc, 210 Continental, 230 Continental, or 220 Franklin. All these have good points and bad points, as does the 108 airframe, but I'll bet that the Super Stinsons are going for less money than hotrodded 170's. Another option to the 182.
I'm with Hammer- I prefer tailwheel airplanes just cuz they're more fun, mainly due to the more challenging aspects of ytailwheel flying. But I agree that a nosedragger makes more sense if you're not a diehard t/w fan. Hard to beat a 182 if you can afford it (and put up with the nosewheel).

Eric