No thanks, I've read it- I just wanted to let others know about it. It's a good article. But not necesarily gospel- just a good place to start while experimenting with what works best for you.

I just hopped over to the skywagons site and read thru some of their "operating tips". Some good stuff there. But subject to personal opinion like always, of course. There's a link to that website on the bcp "links" button, then navigate to the "operating tips" like Gary describes above.

Eric

For what it's worth: When I find students that are pranging the landings or slamming them on with little or no flare, the culprit is usually spotting the deck. My own technique to help with this:
1. In the briefing, I have them stand at one end of a long table. I lay out several IFR charts unfolded only once and lay them end-to-end to make a "runway." Then I have them look at the far end of the table as they squat down on their knees. They can see how the close end of the runway rises up much faster compared to the far end of our little fake runway. The light sometimes goes on! Then I take them out in the plane. I get them to look farther down the runway, preferably near the end and have them watch and look outside while I demo a landing or two. They usually get it after a few more tries.
2. The other thing I do is check their seat height. More often than not, they have the seat up too high. I have them lower it a click or two.

That usually is how I work on someone slamming it on. As for floating down the runway and missing the landing zone, well check yer speed and stop trying to make it grease. I greased landing is not necessarily a good landing I tell them.

The beauty of military training is that I can take my own sweet time teaching this. I'm supposed to meet my hours per event of training, but I usually go over. I take the heat from the Operations Officer but I loves my students!

Cheers,
Arn

Arn, from another of your posts I take it you're talking about instructing in KingAirs. While to some extent "flying is flying", I'm not sure that all of the tips & techniques translate well between single/multi/poiston/turbine/jet aircraft. What corrects a problem in a KingAir might make it worse in a Cub- or vice versa.
Do you instruct in smaller, more personal-size aircraft also?

Eric

Eric,
I have instructed in EP-3s (Lockheed Electra-4 eng turboprop) and the King Air 200s. After flying the EP-3 and 737, the King Air feels like a personal-sized aircraft to me! I'm not sure that what I teach in the King Airs would translate well to a small airplane. It's more just food for thought, maybe something to try if someone is having a hard time learning. I have MUCH to learn about flying small planes. That's one of the many things I love about aviation: there is so much to learn in so many different levels that I cannot and will not ever learn it all! I'm a total green-horn at flying small planes into small strips. That's why I'm here: I want to learn!

What do you all think about tire pressure and the role it may have to do with the bounce factor?

When we picked up the plane in Yreka it seemed to me like there was too little air in the tires especially with two full sized guys in it. The looked awful squishy. I mentioned it to Dan and he said that was the way it should be.

When we got it home Hammer put some more air in the tires; I am not sure how much. At what PSI should we be flying/landing those tires? They are the 850s I believe.

Any thoughts.

Tomorrow we're off and the forecast calls for calm winds and sunny skies. Time to get down these landings and start venturing off into the wild blue yonder.

I run 20 to 25 pounds in 8.50's. That makes them a little soft, which is good most days. I would not go over 25. You can run as low as 15 to 18, but you need to put slippage marks on wheels and tires, to detect slippage.

If you run low pressures, be sure to check them periodically with an accurate guage. Temperature changes can significantly change tire pressures at low ranges.

Tailwheel tire should be around 50. DON'T run the tailwheel tire low on pressure.

MTV

The Kenmore Air Harbor stc to install 8.50's on 180's/185's calls for 18 psi for the 185. Thats where I run mine, makes the tires kind of soft with a bulge in the side wall (Goodyear tire). I think that the soft tire absorbs some of the springiness of the gear. You may find that you have fewer problems with a lower air pressure. To visualize what happens with more pressure in the tire, think of a basketball which is soft verse one which is over inflated. The one with more air in it bounces higher. As for tire slippage on the wheel, I have double puck brakes, haven't had a problem with heavy braking on either dirt or pavement.

Tim

I think that you may find different brands requiring different pressures. I am running Goodyear recap 8.50's. They have a relatively stiffer sidewall than a McCreary, so I think they will tolerate a lower pressure better. On rougher strips I'll run them down to 15, with marks on the wheeel/tire. But it feels too soft on asphalt, so if I'm on smoother strips. I'll run 18-20.
A fella I know with McCreary's, says he doesn't like to go under 25 pounds.

I have the "World Famous" AKBush tailwheel, and run that at 12, and like it there, anywhere.

Just my thoughts, works for me Gary

Here's a nice one for sale: http://C170ForSale.BlogSpot.com

Snoopydoc and I spent four hours hitting various strips in the valley, and I've figured out the reason for the occasional bounce...we're not controlling the airplane. Hard to believe, I know. It will come with time, and gas, and rubber, and more time. As long as it doesn't cost us any aluminum, it's all good.

We are both people who learned how to fly one airplane with much more precision than we have across the board. That's probably not a good thing, but it is a good eye opener. Honestly it was quite disappointing to me that I wasn't able to transfer more of my flying skills to the next airplane. It's a good example of how skewed my perceptions are...much of what I interpreted as an increase in aviation prowess was really just intimacy of my airplane masquerading as such. Flying a new plane isn't quite as challenging as learning to fly from the right seat, but it's harder than I would have thought.

In what can only be described as a feeble attempt at saving face, I'd like to point out that almost all of my 170 time has been from the right seat...a position I'm somewhat new to. What's much more impressive is that most of the time Snoopydoc has been in the left seat, tolerating my inane observations and "teaching" style, which is about as subtle and delicate as a stone hammer. Her patience in allowing me in the aircraft with her is only overshadowed by the fact that she married me in the first place.

It's a good plane. Bouncy though...

Hammer wrote:...much of what I interpreted as an increase in aviation prowess was really just intimacy of my airplane masquerading as such.
.........

Sounds like an increase in prowess to me. I guess there are some true "hot sticks" out there who can crawl into a totally new-to-them airplane & fly it flawlessly, but I'm sure not one of them and probably neither are most of us on this board.
I agree with the suggestion that a slightly mains-first arrival while 3-pointing may be your problem. I know it was (& sometimes still is) mine. Like Jr sez, the downward momentum of the tail brings it down, AOA increases, and off you go- half bounce, half flying. I often feel a bounce when wheeling it on, but it's usually just the gear compressing & then rebounding- the mains don't actually leave the ground, it just feels like they do.
Practicing 3 pointers, and for that matter wheelers, try carrying a little power til touchdown. On wheelers it helps reduce the sink rate to minimum, on 3-pointers it can allow you to achieve a higher AOA allowing you to touch down on all three or slightly tail first- thereby eliminating Jr's "jounce".
Keep at it, learning and experimenting is fun & good practice. You'll soon figure out what works for you in different conditions- which may or may not be how you did it in the 140.
getting any bites on that BTW?

Eric

My personal and decidedly unexpert opinion about bouncing the 170 is the following: not paying attention to recommended approach and landing airspeeds and not being used to the proper height for the flare (if you are flaring for a three point landing.) My 170 will float then "plop"/bounce very easily if one flares at the wrong height or too fast - I've found it more sensitive to landing airspeeds than the typical Cessna 172/152/182. I now wheel it on tail low most of the time and if I visualize my landings out at the horizon instead of at the ground in front off me I grease it on more often than not

Just as you are getting ready to touchdown in the 3 point, just before the mains touch, rock the wheel back and forth, touching one wheel, then the other. That should kill the bounce, long as you are going slow enough.

Just another technique

Gary

snoopydoc wrote:Someone mentioned perhaps we're coming in too fast and I am thinking that is probably the case and will try slowing it up. Any recommendations on approach and landing speeds? Right now I am aiming for 70 and 65 respectively with a passenger, 65 and 60 alone... that would be mph not knots. How slow do you think we can go?

With a Horton cuff...50 MPH shouldn't be a problem. My son has a '53 B model with a straight wing and 50 MPH can be consistently flown with ease. If you feel uncomfortable with that, try 55 or 60 MPH and work it down to 50 with the elev trim set for that speed so the elev control feels the same every time.

Hammer wrote:It's a good plane. Bouncy though...

I'll throw my two cents in, and stand by what I posted several months ago...

Airspeed, airspeed, and airspeed, which comes from trim wheel and really paying attention to elevator position for the type of landing you're attempting. If you're bouncing with a full-stall I'm betting you're not really fully stalled as the airplane touches. Stick full back with wheels an inch or two off the ground.

Conversely, with a wheel landing, feel it skimming and stick it forward and there you are. Push it on and you are not going back up in the air.

But... Tomorrow I might prang mine on and bounce ten feet up in the air, and shed parts and I come hopping to a stop. What the f**k do I know, I'm just lucky to survive the day.

Gump