Is it just a function of regular weather checking, then monitor the weather in the days and week leading up to a flight to check for rain, then subsequent warm/dry/windy weather to dry things out? Ask other pilots and inquire at local-ish FBOs? Then a low pass over the field to verify conditions?

I ask because I'd like to start branching out from my local valley environment(s) and start touching some of the smaller, unpaved municipal strips that are in SW Montana. Most of the strips I'm eyeballing are just small, municipal strips, nothing "backcountry" but could easily be described as "backcountry-esque:" at a minimum dirt, grass, and other unpaved strips small population centers. I've been practicing soft field takeoffs and landings (nearly every take off and landing is soft and short field for me these days) and I'd like to start adding nearby strips for both variety and for practice at non-standard airports on non-paved fields.

I ask this because (to tell on myself) I don't know if I took some out of my luck bucket and added it to my experience bucket on 4/30. For context, it was a gorgeous morning after a few damp days and I was interested in a long XC flight. I left Bozeman, did a touch and go at Butte, and had originally just intended to do a practice low pass at Wise River (02T), then head for home. During the pass, the strip looked in decent but rough-ish shape, so I came back around and landed. It was a nothing burger; strip was rough ("poor condition" as per the chart supplement) and a bit damp and soft, but otherwise a non-event. Flung some mud up on the ventral side of the wings and elevator, I got out, relieved myself, marveled at the fact that I get to do this, then left. Departure was also a nothing burger, though it was really fucking cool to actually use my soft-field landing and takeoff skills.

On the way home, I stopped at Dillon for fuel and hosed the mud off the plane. While at the FBO, I was talking with the owner who asked where I picked up the mud. When I told him, he seemed surprised that I had landed at Wise River, telling me that it's normally not useable until at least June. That's when I realized that I may have just gotten lucky. I did the low pass, things look good, and I landed. Was this luck? What else should I have done?

Drag the field, look for signs of moisture. Make another pass but don't commit to landing - use a light wheel landing to check the condition of the field for moisture and to see how smooth it is. If it looks smooth (dry), it might be. If it looks rough (wet), it IS!

There’s really only one sure way to tell if a strip is dry enough.

Dragging the strip helps, for sure.

This is also one of the sales pitches for bigger tires.

We had a pretty dry winter, but more precip recently.

MTV

Simply land then get out and stick your finger in the dirt or mud as it may be. Mud is much like snow there are all different kinds depending on soil make up such as sand dirt gravel compaction and plant matter. Wise River as I remember was a fluffy loamy soil with little compaction so prone to turning to soup with little moisture. Precipitation can be very local so if you get reports it should be from someone who has seen the actual landing spot. As Dirty Harry said "well are ya feeling lucky punk" welcome to backcountry flying. If you have any doubts don't. The problem sometimes is not realizing you should have doubts.

In the corner of Alaska where I fly, I figure everything is hazardous in the spring until proven otherwise. Was just doing a scouting mission for a flight that might happen in about a month, and the whole area is wet and terrible. Found one spot that might be workable, but decided not to roll to a stop. Will go back and check on it in a couple weeks light and empty and by myself in a cub. Spring is a good time to exercise an extra helping of patience.

Fly with a friend. Let them land first.

Several years ago someone tried a touch-and-go on the dry mudflats exposed when the water was low at Owyhee reservoir. It wasn't as dry as they thought, and the plane got stuck in the mud. If I remember correctly they didn't tell anyone where they were going, no cell service, no survival gear of any kind, etc. they spent a very cold night and flew home the next morning when the mud was frozen. If anyone knows a 100% reliable way to tell if a strip is dry I am interested.

This is a good thread. The truth is you really don't know how wet a strip is unless you're on the ground. Waiting for summer dry months and PIREPs is the most reliable way from a risk perspective. I got stuck at Tieton years ago. I saw grass on the entire strip except an area in the center of the runway that was brownish in color. It was in the Spring and the airport was technically closed via WSDOT. Landed and just rolled right into the mud. If I would I have just hit the breaks I could have gone around the mud and had no issues. I flagged down a guy in a truck and we pulled the airplane out with some rope. Took a few hours. Initially, I tried having my girlfriend push on the tail while I manned the controls. I believe I got a combination of mud and cowshit in her hair. She was wearing a nice shirt at the time so she went topless. She was a good sport about flying and didn't panic. I carry a Garmin in Reach now and would just text a friend if I got stuck somewhere too remote now to come save me. Main point here. Wait for dry summer months and PIREPs just to be sure. If your going to play in the mud then run 31 inch Bushwheels. I have 8.5 X 6s and tread carefully in the Spring. I do believe if you fly in the backcountry long enough you're going to get stuck. Pack a tent, sleeping bag, and a few rations and enjoy being with mother nature.



Josh

Dog is my Copilot wrote:This is a good thread. The truth is you really don't know how wet a strip is unless you're on the ground. Waiting for summer dry months and PIREPs is the most reliable way from a risk perspective. I got stuck at Tieton years ago. I saw grass on the entire strip except an area in the center of the runway that was brownish in color. It was in the Spring and the airport was technically closed via WSDOT. Landed and just rolled right into the mud. If I would I have just hit the breaks I could have gone around the mud and had no issues. I flagged down a guy in a truck and we pulled the airplane out with some rope. Took a few hours. Initially, I tried having my girlfriend push on the tail while I manned the controls. I believe I got a combination of mud and cowshit in her hair. She was wearing a nice shirt at the time so she went topless. She was a good sport about flying and didn't panic. I carry a Garmin in Reach now and would just text a friend if I got stuck somewhere too remote now to come save me. Main point here. Wait for dry summer months and PIREPs just to be sure. If your going to play in the mud then run 31 inch Bushwheels. I have 8.5 X 6s and tread carefully in the Spring. I do believe if you fly in the backcountry long enough you're going to get stuck. Pack a tent, sleeping bag, and a few rations and enjoy being with mother nature.



Josh

You have a very understanding girlfriend!

I asked an old time Alaska pilot once if he was a pilot when he arrived in AK. “Nope, but first winter I went flying with one of our pilots in a Stinson SR-77.” “He landed on skis in a narrow creek and we got stuck. He got out, tied a short rope to the tailwheel, and told me to pull sideways on it while he applied power. It was -30 F, and he blew chunks of ice and snow at me as I pulled with all my strength. When I boarded the plane to leave, the pilot looked at me and said: Son, now you know that there are two kinds of people in Alaska: Pushers and Blasters, and it’s always better to be a Blaster. “ He said he learned to fly the next spring.

MTV

Dry mud is usually lighter in color than wet mud, but not always. It depends on the kind of mud. Cracks in the mud and a light color are good indications that it's dry but it's a good idea to drag it first before committing to a landing. One of the reasons that I switched from 8.50x6.00 tires to 31" Alaskan Bushwheels is to avoid sinking into mud or wet grass.

andy wrote:Dry mud is usually lighter in color than wet mud, but not always. It depends on the kind of mud. Cracks in the mud and a light color are good indications that it's dry but it's a good idea to drag it first before committing to a landing. One of the reasons that I switched from 8.50x6.00 tires to 31" Alaskan Bushwheels is to avoid sinking into mud or wet grass.

I’ve seen a lot of mud that had surface cracks, but was slop underneath. As you noted, there’s mud, and then there’s mud. Some of the worst are Bentonite soils, better known as Gumbo.

MTV

Drag it, and then look at the bottom of the wing. And keep your fingers crossed when coming to a full stop, when you may sink thru a crust that allowed you to stay on top with a little speed! I mess around once or twice a year on the flats of the Great Salt Lake, and some of the tracks left by ATV's etc. scare me to death, sinking WAY in, seems like the lighter colored sand is more OK than the dark stuff. The "fly with a friend" comment is spot on!

mtv wrote:

Dog is my Copilot wrote:This is a good thread. The truth is you really don't know how wet a strip is unless you're on the ground. Waiting for summer dry months and PIREPs is the most reliable way from a risk perspective. I got stuck at Tieton years ago. I saw grass on the entire strip except an area in the center of the runway that was brownish in color. It was in the Spring and the airport was technically closed via WSDOT. Landed and just rolled right into the mud. If I would I have just hit the breaks I could have gone around the mud and had no issues. I flagged down a guy in a truck and we pulled the airplane out with some rope. Took a few hours. Initially, I tried having my girlfriend push on the tail while I manned the controls. I believe I got a combination of mud and cowshit in her hair. She was wearing a nice shirt at the time so she went topless. She was a good sport about flying and didn't panic. I carry a Garmin in Reach now and would just text a friend if I got stuck somewhere too remote now to come save me. Main point here. Wait for dry summer months and PIREPs just to be sure. If your going to play in the mud then run 31 inch Bushwheels. I have 8.5 X 6s and tread carefully in the Spring. I do believe if you fly in the backcountry long enough you're going to get stuck. Pack a tent, sleeping bag, and a few rations and enjoy being with mother nature.



Josh

You have a very understanding girlfriend!

I asked an old time Alaska pilot once if he was a pilot when he arrived in AK. “Nope, but first winter I went flying with one of our pilots in a Stinson SR-77.” “He landed on skis in a narrow creek and we got stuck. He got out, tied a short rope to the tailwheel, and told me to pull sideways on it while he applied power. It was -30 F, and he blew chunks of ice and snow at me as I pulled with all my strength. When I boarded the plane to leave, the pilot looked at me and said: Son, now you know that there are two kinds of people in Alaska: Pushers and Blasters, and it’s always better to be a Blaster. “ He said he learned to fly the next spring.

MTV

I am definitely a Blaster - good to know thy self. This cracks me up.

I was doing some instruction last summer flying Franks 182 with size 6 tires. We took it into Memaloose in late June. I told him the bottom of the strip can get muddy and to float the first third of the strip. He decided to let me have the airplane. It had the appearance of a light tan toward the middle of the strip. Of course when I set her down. We started sinking. I gave it 3/4 throttle got out of the mud and on top of the strip. No prop damage. It had been really dry that spring with reports of Fish Lake being good. This was the weekend the Northwest had temps of 110-115F in Oregon and Washington. We had also landed at Moose Creek earlier that morning and found no problems. Of course Memaloose is much higher and the hill has drainage issues. Size 6 tires are sort of a joke for backcountry flying but his airplane has been into Lower Loon in late July a few years previously.


Josh

gbflyer wrote:Fly with a friend. Let them land first.

Ah. The backcountry skiing example of backcountry flying. No reason to have first tracks on a new slope!

mtv wrote:
I’ve seen a lot of mud that had surface cracks, but was slop underneath. As you noted, there’s mud, and then there’s mud. Some of the worst are Bentonite soils, better known as Gumbo.

MTV

I used to be a researcher who worked in the MO River Breaks up and downstream of the UL Bend. Getting to and from river sites--or even just around the area--was nearly impossible even after 0.1" of rain. The gumbo mud up there will humble even a state F250 FWD in 4L.

Best way to learn is through the bad experiences of others... the gist of this thread is the most consistently successful way to tell if a strip is 'dry' is a calender + ar very recent PIREP.

I’m based on a grass-strip in OK; lot’s of clay in the soil. 8.50 x 6’s, bushwheel. My rule is “standing water, land some place better”,