In light of recent crashes, incompetence of the Civil Air Patrol and a first hand glimpse into how hard it is for family members to wrap their head around the important aspects of a search, I thought I'd ask if anyone has a great strategy. I have the SPOT device and I usually get flight following if I'm going far but if I were to go down......I've probably already done something stupid and drug other people into my bad decision, the least I can do is make it easy to find my carcass and get some closure. Is there a way spouses could spread the word on this forum and get some advice? It would be nice if we could get a good search organized in the period of time CAP is still lined up in front of the peter meter deciding who gets to call in the TFR. I've felt like telling my wife not to call me in missing to the CAP but that could cause her problems with today's authorities, so I'll probably tell her to post something on here at the same time. What say ye?

Have her post here............. we WILL come find ya.....

And when you crash,,, don't get hurt too bad since you are buying dinner and the first 2 rounds of adult beverages..

This has been brought up a few times, and you make a good point about rallying the troops to search for you. Here are a few points to consider though:

1. In a time of crisis (nosedragger is missing in his plane) organization is pretty important. The risk of putting another pilot in danger because they mobilized to look for you, possibly with a hastened deployment, is high.

2. Communication between those searching is critical. If you're found within 15 minutes, you don't want guys continuing on into wherever for no reason, increasing #1 above. So, you need someone to play dispatcher. All this is very hard to organize on short notice, so your appointed dispatcher should prob be someone familiar with the program.

3. Anyone in charge of communication via the Internet (this forum) should be a regular and familiar with its operation, and have their own account. You don't want someone who seldom logs in to struggle with remembering their password. It should be someone your wife can call and have them take the reigns, possibly be the dispatcher. They should definitely know all your details like N# and Spot page.

4. Do you want the whole world being kept updated with details of your situation? Some people like a little privacy when they ding their bird and not have the whole situation played out in front of all 3800 BCP members. Might not seem important in a life or death situation.

Just a few thoughts.

I put an android app on my wifes phone, called GPS Status. It has a feature called radar. When she clicks the link on the Email or the text message that my spot sent out, one of the choices is to open it with Radar. That is a great little gps that will guide her right to me. You can do it with google maps too, but must have good signal to do that. The radar works into no signal areas.

We should have a fly-in one of these days just to see if we can find someone.. I'm a little worried that she will forget how to use it.. ha ha

I appreciate the self-reliance appeal of this thread, and yes, I'll come try to find you. But at the same time, go get a GPS-linked 406 ELT. Seriously.

X2 on the GPS enabled 406 ELT. Sorry, folks, it's time to spend a little cash on that airplane on something besides big tires and props.

The ACK unit can be connected to an external GPS (any Garmin, panel or portable) and it costs $580 last I checked.

I am not a big believer in CAP. I'd rather have almost ANYone looking for me in the event.

But, that GPS enabled 406 will take the search out of search and rescue.

MTV

I'm going to get signed up for this added from Alaska FSS. Sounds like they may have it in lower 48 later on?
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/20130330/new-search-and-rescue-program-should-make-alaska-aviation-safer

Is all the CAP hate justified?

Point338 wrote:Is all the CAP hate justified?

I don't see any hate towards CAP at all in these posts.

My ACK was $500,minus what I was going to spend on the 121.5 battery, and it comes with a remote switch. I made the external GPS cable with a modified circular connector and some 38999 sockets.

I use a Spot, and I'm not afraid to flip the switch on my 406 as soon as things are definitely going south. I like flying in the rocks a lot, but I do give a detailed flight summary to my better half or other person, including where I might divert to play. If text is available, it's nice to share the fun in the air and let them know where I am.

I don't want folks fretting for too long if I get myself in trouble, period. The thought of that kind of agony is something I don't want to experience yet again in my family, especially not on account of me. It's bad enough to lose a loved one, but to be strung out in limbo can make an entire family crazy for a while.

If folks realized that CFIT is 90% of the problem, and keeping go juice in in the tanks is half of the remaining problem, 19 out of 20 families that might face this kind of shock would be spared.

I'll come look for ya.

There is some good stuff in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=11626
I like how Matt7GCBC has his spot stuff set up.

The NZ CAA in their wisdom have mandated fixed 406 ELT's, the $$/reliability ratio just doesn't work unfortunately so I always carry a 406 GPS PLB. If I'm over water it's strapped to my lifejacket otherwise it's always within reach. I've included switching on both the fixed and the PLB in my engine failure checklist, useless at low altitude I know... This far south there can be several hours delay with satellite passes to figure a position whereas the GPS unit will zap out the coordinates pronto

I think the SPOT and Spidertracks etc would be worth it

So...I just got this email flyer from Chief;
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/pilot-shop ... A2,4P1AH,1

It has a wide range of 406 and 121.5 personal elt's, lightweight, waterproof*, etc. What looks like the best bang for the buck to you guys? I've been out of the loop on this for awhile, and like all electronics...it's a fast moving target.
Thanks!
Don

This is a very interesting thread. My wife and I were discussing this very idea this afternoon. Zz, MTV and others have brought up some vary valid points. I know I have next to zero experience with SAR. However there are some very knowledgable SAR guys on this forum, and I believe, with a fair amount of experience. Would it be something to start a serious discussion about, setting up something akin to an Amber Alert in a organized professional manner.

Maybe something of this caliber isn't feasible for this organization, maybe the liability is to much, etc., but if there is a chance of something being worked out .............

Marty

Lots of good advice. Does the 406 slaved to the GPS work like a regular elt or is there more to it? Someone mentioned turning it on when things were getting dicey, I don't want that. As far as CAP, it may be regional but around here they suck, not only can't they find anything, they obstruct those who can. I'm looking into the spot/radar app too.

Nosedragger wrote:Lots of good advice. Does the 406 slaved to the GPS work like a regular elt or is there more to it? Someone mentioned turning it on when things were getting dicey, I don't want that. As far as CAP, it may be regional but around here they suck, not only can't they find anything, they obstruct those who can. I'm looking into the spot/radar app too.

It works like a regular ELT but some models also offer a second, manual activation switch that you can install on your panel, etc.

I find the people evolved in the CAP are very low on the food chain hoping to get some free flight time. Coupled with a BSer attitude makes them hard to work with. Taxes pi$$ed in to the wind. Opinion.

All later models of ELTs, including the 406s, must have the panel activation switch as part of the installation. Not all are connected to GPSs or have GPSs built-in. Those without built in GPS can only be connected to panel-mount GPSs. But even without being connected, they offer a much tighter search radius than 121.5 ELTs. There isn't any doubt that having a 406 ELT installed is a whole lot better than a 121.5 ELT--better reliability, narrower search radius down to as little as a few meters if hooked to a GPS, etc. I've had an Artex 406ME installed in my airplane since they first became available.

I also carry a an ACR PLB, and it has an "I'm OK" button as well as the "help, come rescue me" button. When I press the "I'm OK" button, Mah Woman gets a text on her phone and a message on her email. But it's totally manual, and there's no guarantee that someone might be able to set it off, even after a survivable crash.

The benefit of any 406 ELT or PLB is that the NOAA SARS network gets activated, whereas the SPOT and others are private--no telling how well they might work in an emergency. That's not an indictment of them, just being realistic. Realistically, while the federal SARS network, including the CAP, may not work as well as it could, it's already in place and already has the organization and dispatching capability.

Cary

8GCBC wrote:I find the people evolved in the CAP are very low on the food chain hoping to get some free flight time. Coupled with a BSer attitude makes them hard to work with. Taxes pi$$ed in to the wind. Opinion.

I won't say you're wrong, because I can't attest to CAP on a large scale, but my impression has been almost exactly the opposite. Met some really high time pilots that are involved with CAP.. military, airline, instructors, many still flying outside of CAP, many who own their own aircraft. There's some folks that aren't high-time, but pretty much all of them seem to be mission-oriented.

I'm not a CAP pilot, so I can't attest to this, but my understanding is that there's very little "free" flight time and that a lot of the time the plane is flying, the pilot's are paying for the fuel and paying into the maintenance fund, after already paying to join and paying dues.

I don't know, it just seems to me like they get a lot of unfair flak. They're a volunteer, non-profit organization. The military, in my experience, wastes way more money.

Point338 wrote:

8GCBC wrote:I find the people evolved in the CAP are very low on the food chain hoping to get some free flight time. Coupled with a BSer attitude makes them hard to work with. Taxes pi$$ed in to the wind. Opinion.

I won't say you're wrong, because I can't attest to CAP on a large scale, but my impression has been almost exactly the opposite. Met some really high time pilots that are involved with CAP.. military, airline, instructors, many still flying outside of CAP, many who own their own aircraft. There's some folks that aren't high-time, but pretty much all of them seem to be mission-oriented.

I'm not a CAP pilot, so I can't attest to this, but my understanding is that there's very little "free" flight time and that a lot of the time the plane is flying, the pilot's are paying for the fuel and paying into the maintenance fund, after already paying to join and paying dues.

I don't know, it just seems to me like they get a lot of unfair flak. They're a volunteer, non-profit organization. The military, in my experience, wastes way more money.

Since you are new here I will repost this. It was sent to me after two failed CAP searches. One included a 36 NM TFR to keep out all "other" searchers... I am sure there are decent CAP chapters but IMHO they all need to be treated as suspect until prover otherwise..

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Hi Ben!


I'm an old fogey who believes in lessons learned rather than blaming others. Please ask the other folks to keep this private for now. We don't need anyone stirring up these agencies right now or upsetting the family.


We LOVE the many dedicated folks who comprise SAR teams! But in the case of this crash, the system was horribly broken.


These are some of the things that apparently went wrong with the notifications & procedures. They are listed chronologically whenever possible. Note: The aircraft apparently crashed shortly after noon on Sunday, 11.2 miles East of the Fillmore Airport (FOM).


1) There was an unconfirmed report in Sevier County on Sunday of smoke on the ridge between Millard County and Sevier County. Because there was no report of an aircraft emergency, it is unknown what procedures were implemented.
2) Although the FAA reportedly issued an ALNOT Report at 1148, Monday -- lots of counties and agencies were NOT notified for several days.
3) Utah CAP (usually Chaplain Boyd) regularly briefed the extended family on the search area & number of planes assigned. At the time, we did not know that they kept refusing other SAR resources (Pilots For Christ - Wyoming and other volunteers). It is still unclear who they did & did not notify. It is still unclear if they truly had the authority for all command decisions and had the right to refuse competent SAR resources. There seems to be conflicting guidance on this and even the counties didn't seem to know who was in charge.
4) Tuesday evening, I was flabbergasted that the Millard County Sheriff's Office dispatcher told me that they were NOT aware of any missing plane even though they were located in Fillmore -- where the plane was last seen. Chaplain Boyd had briefed me that he was in touch with their acting Sheriff and he knew about it -- but the dispatcher claimed no knowledge of it and wasn't interested in the information.
5) In subsequent days, family & friends were contacting lots of county sheriff's offices to verify that they had been notified. We are still gathering times, dates, names, etc., but several counties including adjoining counties told us on Wednesday & even Thursday that they had received NO notifications on a missing plane in the area. Some counties said that they were quite upset because they had highly trained & equipped SAR resources that would gladly have begun searching days earlier.
6) Wednesday, we were assured that several counties including Millard (Fillmore) had lots of ground SAR teams searching the local area. We were contacted on the Facebook page "Prayers for Trista, Shy & Matt" by private folks in that area who had volunteered their services with horses, ATVs & sleds, etc., but they told us that they were told by the county that they were NOT needed because they already had LOTS of search teams. Later, we received unconfirmed reports that SAR teams were not really deployed in that area after all. We really don't know!
7) When family members were contacting the governors & senators of UT & WY requesting National Guard resources such as Black Hawks and ground search teams, they were repeatedly told that it was impractical because the search area was 2400 sq. miles. This was an invalid reason for rejecting those resources, because there was NO evidence that they ever got out of the valley from the Fillmore Airport. Shortly after takeoff, there was one single ping received near Mt. Pleasant -- with NO further contact. On Wednesday, a group of us including off duty pilots and an air traffic controller went over every scrap of evidence or absence there of. We went through EVERY conceivable scenario and our group agreed unanimously that there was NO evidence they ever got out of the valley area. On Wednesday night, I contacted CAP Chaplain Boyd and he verbally agreed with our findings. I insisted that because a severe winter storm was forecast, the governors & National Guard must be contacted immediately to mobilize all appropriate resources for Thursday morning. Black Hawk helicopters would be absolutely critical in searching the local ridges, canyons & ledges before they would be buried by snow! One Utah National Guard Black Hawk made one sortie late Thursday afternoon and reportedly were joined by 2 more on Friday. We are unaware of any National Guard ground search resources being deployed.
Because of our connections with the USAF, Wing Commanders or Command Posts at several bases in the region were contacted. Significant resources such as photo reconnaissance aircraft, rescue helicopters and even unmanned drones were reportedly available but had to be officially requested through channels. We had a friend who works with classified satellite imagery that said they could have helped, but we couldn't get anyone in authority to make the request. That imagery and/or unmanned drones could have focused around the Fillmore area, the mountains just north and east of there, and a few lakes in the area.
9) Idaho Search & Rescue was contacted by family members and they indicated they could provide technical expertise or deploy teams & equipment if officially requested through channels. That option was not chosen.


End Result: The missing plane was found by a Utah DPS helicopter at approx. 8:00 am, Sunday, Dec. 2nd, 2012 -- 11.2 miles east of the Fillmore, UT Airport. The pilot, 2 passengers and 2 dogs did not survive.


The Utah State Medical Examiner in SLC states that the pilot died almost immediately, but his 34 year old girlfriend probably lived 3-4 days. Both of her lower legs were broken, but she eventually died from exposure. He also stated that her 9 year old daughter probably lived for 4-5 days before lying down next to her mother and dying of exposure. Grrrrr! She was relatively uninjured and her tracks were all over the hillside apparently trying to get help. The NTSB Lead Investigator stated a cell phone was found showing that the young girl had been trying to send text messages to her Daddy for help. Grrrr!


I'm sure that there are plenty of officials that feel terrible about this tragedy. But I highly doubt that any one of them would have any idea how horribly the system failed us all in this case. Some of these counties spend a lot of time, effort, and money preparing for SAR missions. We cheapen their dedicated efforts if we don't find the resolve to overcome these critical problems. In honor of our young friends -- we MUST do better and save lives in the future!!!


We will appreciate your efforts to help with this matter. Thank you!