Does anyone have the drawings (K-350)? I have the STC but not the drawings....Kenmore has suspended sale of this STC for revisions. Thanks guys!!!! Joe

Joe, check with the 180/185 club.
Ron

Hi Joe, I have a 69 180 project I have owned for a few years that I hope to get to this year. It came with yet to be installed 206 seats but no STC or paper work for the seat installation. I also noticed last week that sales of the STC had been suspended. Last Monday I sent an email to the Kenmore Air parts department asking when it might be available again. The parts department forwarded my email to the service department. Today Rob Richey, Director of Maintenance for Kenmore Air responded. His email said that the part numbers for the seat rails had changed and that this had caused problems for installers, so they, Kenmore Air, had stopped sales of the STC. He also stated that the engineer they use had this revision on his list of things to do and that it should be available again in a couple of months. So the short story is the STC and installation instructions will be available again, just no hard date. I hope this helps.

Tim

Kenmore does still sell this STC. They just want you to call first before they sell it to you. The reason is that 206 seats are getting hard to find and some people have purchased the STC before procuring the proper 206 seat part numbers or understanding the whole process. They then later complained to Kenmore about spending money on an STC and not being able to use it. So the Kenmore head parts guy basically needs to hear from a customer that they have purchased the 206 seats and understand the process prior to selling them the STC (which comes with two sheet metal clips). If the aircraft to be modded is not a seaplane model then two Cessna bulkhead parts have to be added to the floor structure which is outside the scope of the STC. Basically you have to pass an interview over the phone first.

Has anyone done this STC lately and have photos?

I have the STC and seats for my project but it will be a couple of months before I get to that point. There are a couple of "got ya's" with the STC, the first being that the part numbers of the required seat rails are now spelled out so you will need to buy about $1200 of seat rails, and second the seat position on the rail is spelled out in the STC so the seats are no longer adjustable. They are to be installed in the forward (actually only) hole in the rail which puts the front of the seat where the front of the bench seat is. I am going to speculate that this position was chosen so that a supplement to the AFM weight and balance data was not required. I plan to ask for a field approval to drill another hole in the track and specify a different arm in a AFM supplement to move the seats back a few inches.

Tim

bat443 wrote:I have the STC and seats for my project but it will be a couple of months before I get to that point. There are a couple of "got ya's" with the STC, the first being that the part numbers of the required seat rails are now spelled out so you will need to buy about $1200 of seat rails, and second the seat position on the rail is spelled out in the STC so the seats are no longer adjustable. They are to be installed in the forward (actually only) hole in the rail which puts the front of the seat where the front of the bench seat is. I am going to speculate that this position was chosen so that a supplement to the AFM weight and balance data was not required. I plan to ask for a field approval to drill another hole in the track and specify a different arm in a AFM supplement to move the seats back a few inches.

Tim

I'm planning to install 206 seats in my 180 at some point. I have the seats and the STC from Kenmore.

I have a couple of questions....

It looks like the seat rails are $400 each now. $1600 worth! Ouch! Anyone have a better source than Mcfarlane?

Did you have any success with a second hole in the seat track to permit some adjustment in seat position?

kg, never did get around to installing the seats, and to be honest at some point in the next few months my 180 project will be going up for sale. The 180 hp 170B is a better fit for the type of flying I am doing now and much easier to push around on the ground. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Tim

bat443 wrote: much easier to push around on the ground.

Tim

Ain't that the truth?! The 180 is a bit heavy to move around by myself. I'm managing but I envy my hangar neighbor with the Best Tug.

Thanks anyway.... I'm in no hurry to install the seats. I found the seats and decided to get them while they were available. I don't have extra passengers very often.

This year's annual I'm focusing on safety related items (shoulder harnesses, sun visors, tail inspection) so comfort for my friends is secondary.

Just because i have an inquiring mind, why would you pay 1600 bucks for seat rails, buy 206 seats and then buy the STC. I was thinking of doing that with my 1956 182 but instead went for folding seats STC. Right now the Lakevue jump seats sell for 2300 bucks. Atlee Dodge a bit more. I like the Lakeview cus easier to install and you can unbolt them and install the original rear seat in with no modification.

I have had these seats for four years and have had people in them less than 20 times. More like 10

qmdv wrote:Just because i have an inquiring mind, why would you pay 1600 bucks for seat rails, buy 206 seats and then buy the STC. I was thinking of doing that with my 1956 182 but instead went for folding seats STC. Right now the Lakevue jump seats sell for 2300 bucks. Atlee Dodge a bit more. I like the Lakeview cus easier to install and you can unbolt them and install the original rear seat in with no modification.

I have had these seats for four years and have had people in them less than 20 times. More like 10

I agree that it doesn't make financial sense. I have the jumpseats. They are awful to sit in. The only good thing is there are rarely passengers back there but for those few there is no comparison. The 206 seats are comfortable. The jumpseats are not.

Quite frankly I stumbled across some seats in near new condition and got them at a good deal. I was shocked at the price of the seat rails.

Not familiar with this mod. Please inform us on what are the advantages and post a picture for those not in the know. Sounds like a chunk of change and hassle not including matching upholstery.

frstnflt wrote: Sounds like a chunk of change and hassle not including matching upholstery.

You are correct.

I got half into this before I checked the price of the seat rails. Now I've decided I'm in no hurry.

But, as my buddy says, if you like the people you put in your back seats, it is worth it. Like everything else in aviation, it depends on how much you want it. I would surmise that it adds value to the airplane, at least it would to me. Just like remodeling your kitchen, I doubt if it will give you a 100% return of the expense but I think it is worth something. Those who are obsessed with eliminating every ounce of weight would disagree with me. I don't carry people back there often either but I have ridden in a friend's 180 in the larger version of the 206 seat and it is comfortable.

Kenmore sells the STC. It is popular enough that the seats are somewhat hard to find.

The blue seats are the Cessna "jump seats" in my airplane. No adjustments. Just a stool with a straight back. The back can be lifted off to allow room for long things in the baggage area and the seats can be removed fairly easily by unscrewing a thumbscrew from the side wall. They can be stowed in the extended baggage compartment. Functional but not comfortable.



The picture below is of two versions of the 206 seats (not my seats, pic from a friend). Both mount on seat rails and can be removed by sliding them off of the rails. The smaller brown one is known as the "utility" seat. Its advantage is that the back will fold forward almost flat to allow long items in the baggage area. It also fits nicely in the extended baggage compartment. The large grey one is the most comfortable of all. It has a reclining back with three positions.

kg wrote:…...The blue seats are the Cessna "jump seats" in my airplane. No adjustments. Just a stool with a straight back. The back can be lifted off to allow room for long things in the baggage area and the seats can be removed fairly easily by unscrewing a thumbscrew from the side wall. They can be stowed in the extended baggage compartment. Functional but not comfortable.

I had a single one of these Cessna jump seats, aka C180/185 middle row seats, in my old C170.
Yep, they're uncomfortable, at least partially because they are too far forward.
I have the BAS (now LakeVue) folding jumpers in my 180, I find them much more comfortable.
Of course, I've never gone for a long ride sitting in them.
IMHO if you really want comfort, install a stock bench seat.

hotrod180 wrote:

kg wrote:…...The blue seats are the Cessna "jump seats" in my airplane. No adjustments. Just a stool with a straight back. The back can be lifted off to allow room for long things in the baggage area and the seats can be removed fairly easily by unscrewing a thumbscrew from the side wall. They can be stowed in the extended baggage compartment. Functional but not comfortable.

I had a single one of these Cessna jump seats, aka C180/185 middle row seats, in my old C170.
Yep, they're uncomfortable, at least partially because they are too far forward.
I have the BAS (now LakeVue) folding jumpers in my 180, I find them much more comfortable.
Of course, I've never gone for a long ride sitting in them.
IMHO if you really want comfort, install a stock bench seat.

If you really want comfort, buy a Bonanza......or King Air. Seems like some of us are missing the definition of "Utility" and "Backcountry".

MTV

This STC was developed in the distant past by Jerry Rader who was the former tech rep at Kenmore. At the time there were only the stock Cessna jump seats or the stock bench seat, none of the other jump seats were available.

Well heeled Kenmore customers operating 180/185 floatplanes were looking for a comfortable way to carry the occasional rear passengers without the hassle of installing/removing the rear bench seat. Cessna parts at the time were cheap and plentiful so Jerry whipped up the paperwork on a cocktail napkin (he didn’t drink but you get the idea) and many happy customers had the 206 seats installed.

A few years back Kenmore was encouraged by the FAA to clean up the language in the STC and now it’s much more specific about P/Ns and installation. If it were me installing those rails I might find a way to use a slightly different P/N rail for the locking side and placard the “required” hole that the seat needs to be set in, just an idea.

This is a very comfortable setup compared to the stock jump seats and the Attlee/lakevue seats, easy to remove also.

I do like that the aftermarket jumpseats use brownline track on the floor that can be used for cargo anchors.


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Halestorm wrote:….I do like that the aftermarket jumpseats use brownline track on the floor that can be used for cargo anchors.

Dodge jumpseats use the brownline rail, BAS uses a Cessna seat rail.
I've seen cargo rings that fit on Cessna seat rails, but the factory ones are spendy & IMHO kinda clunky.
I made some up that work better.



But IMHO they're still not as good as the brownline style rings on a brownline rail.

Deleted this as no one responded anyway

Still a thing for some of us.

I have Atlee Dodge jump seats, but rarely have them installed.
I have sat in the back of a 180 with Atlee seats, I really didn't think they were that bad.