Mike, thats great to know. I wasn't aware of that.

Hmmm,
If I had an unlimited budget, I'd spend it on some Mirror Glaze and 100LL!
But that's just me….

Although, I've from time to time, "Over Thought (Spent)" things too!
Like that time I had to decide between a 4 ply or 6 ply tailwheel tire….

237

bigrenna wrote:

Barnstormer wrote:
Hank, I'm unable to find Aeropod (related to aviation) on the Interweb. Do you by chance have any contact info?

Aeropod is Tony Lopez (BCP member,) but he makes the belly pod. The carbon fiber extended baggage is Todd Hitchcock and made by Airglas.

http://hitchcockaviation.com/detail.php?item=31&cat=Cargo%20Pods

Yep, I do sell a mod that you need for your 185. Every 185 should have a belly pod if you truly want to get as much utility as possible out of it. Plus, with that Wing-X kit, you'll need more space to put all that weight. [email protected] should finish up my shameless plug...

One of the things to keep in mind if you're considering an Emerging Lifesaving Technologies ELT: That ELT is the only one made that does NOT transmit a 121.5 signal in addition to the 406 signal.

Great point, I know every time I climb through 10K at work I saw #2 over to 121.5, as do most airline types. Every time I hear an ELT, I report it to center. I fly out in the sticks enough, I hope some airline driver would do the same for me if I ever end up in a bad spot.

406 DF has existed for some time. It's not a game changer IMO cause SARSAT already does the work.

Even without - nobody is using 121.5 to home....The COSPAS SARSAT architecture uses Doppler shift to derive coordinates in a couple passes of LEOs.

Having been involved in probably hundreds of beacon searches I can think of 0 that 121.5 contributes to find when 406 is transmitting. OK an unregistered beacon in a garage or on an airport etc, CAP uses 121.5.

Still, GPS coupling is quickest, most reliable ASSUMING you registered the beacon. That's the biggest prob lately...

On a side note, I have installed/tested many different ones in my night job -- I gotta wonder how u comply with 91.207 without audible 121.5. I'm sure it's addressed but ?

FWIW I really like the ACK as well but fact is we have saw a bunch of water intrusion/RF activations as of late. No perfect product (yet). Keep it away from water and your wiring away from comms

AEROPOD wrote:

bigrenna wrote:

Barnstormer wrote:
Hank, I'm unable to find Aeropod (related to aviation) on the Interweb. Do you by chance have any contact info?

Aeropod is Tony Lopez (BCP member,) but he makes the belly pod. The carbon fiber extended baggage is Todd Hitchcock and made by Airglas.

http://hitchcockaviation.com/detail.php?item=31&cat=Cargo%20Pods

Yep, I do sell a mod that you need for your 185. Every 185 should have a belly pod if you truly want to get as much utility as possible out of it. Plus, with that Wing-X kit, you'll need more space to put all that weight. [email protected] should finish up my shameless plug...

One of the things to keep in mind if you're considering an Emerging Lifesaving Technologies ELT: That ELT is the only one made that does NOT transmit a 121.5 signal in addition to the 406 signal.

Great point, I know every time I climb through 10K at work I saw #2 over to 121.5, as do most airline types. Every time I hear an ELT, I report it to center. I fly out in the sticks enough, I hope some airline driver would do the same for me if I ever end up in a bad spot.

Another issue of having a 406 that doesn't have 121.5 is that not all SAR groups have the capability yet of homing onto a 406 signal--they need the 121.5 signal. So it's IMHO it's important to have an ELT with both frequencies. Like everyone else here, I don't ever plan to need my ELT, but if I do, I want it to bring the rescue as soon as possible.

Cary

AEROPOD
I hope you have a 406. somebody returning that favor isnt much. Searchers search till the beacon quit - but without satellite listen they just aren't found reliable. 50/50 maybe. And even then it takes ALONG time. I wouldn't wanna be hanging in straps bleeding for 24 hrs. I just spend the $600.

Best part- every one of those not found 121.5s, the owner has no idea he's flying without anything then....till annual..(but had no idea how little help a 121.5 is to affecting rescue in the 1st place I guess)

There was my pitch-
everyone buy a 406 pls. And register it. You owe it to the guys flying all night in the snowstorm to get u.

(sorry for the hijack - usually one of the AKRCC guys speak at the Ak Airman show. Get your facts there. Or callem. 24/7. Theres a lot more fiction than fact online)

What about the change in CG by moving that big heavy batter from the tail to a lighter one way further forward on the firewall. You could run some numbers and see how much of a change it will make. I'm a believer of the new style light weight staters draw much less than the old starters. I have no facts to back it up other than my cub starts better with a skytec than the old stock starter. Seems to be common. Just something to think about.

Cary wrote:.........Another issue of having a 406 that doesn't have 121.5 is that not all SAR groups have the capability yet of homing onto a 406 signal--they need the 121.5 signal. So it's IMHO it's important to have an ELT with both frequencies. ........

IMHO the whole 406 ELT thing is/was a solution in search of a problem. Since the search teams need it anyway, and the airliners monitor it as they overfly the country hither & yon, what would be wrong with the darn satellites just monitoring 121.5?

hotrod180 wrote:

Cary wrote:.........Another issue of having a 406 that doesn't have 121.5 is that not all SAR groups have the capability yet of homing onto a 406 signal--they need the 121.5 signal. So it's IMHO it's important to have an ELT with both frequencies. ........

IMHO the whole 406 ELT thing is/was a solution in search of a problem. Since the search teams need it anyway, and the airliners monitor it as they overfly the country hither & yon, what would be wrong with the darn satellites just monitoring 121.5?

To paraphrase a bunch, the higher frequency helps propagation through the ionosphere to the satellites.

I think the higher frequency can carry more information (such as gps location) and has something to do with the power of the signal as well but I'll have to pull my class notes out for that.

hotrod180 wrote:

Cary wrote:.........Another issue of having a 406 that doesn't have 121.5 is that not all SAR groups have the capability yet of homing onto a 406 signal--they need the 121.5 signal. So it's IMHO it's important to have an ELT with both frequencies. ........

IMHO the whole 406 ELT thing is/was a solution in search of a problem. Since the search teams need it anyway, and the airliners monitor it as they overfly the country hither & yon, what would be wrong with the darn satellites just monitoring 121.5?

Rescue teams do not need it (121.5). Thats simply not true. Great example of internet bunk I referenced. A good example is MTV's story of getting called by RCC right where he was…..Thats normal. Nearly a daily basis in summer. Usually before a guy gets to his house or tied down even. Also, Coords produced are much more accurate than advertised typically (assuming you don't have a gps coupled device--gps coupled even better of course). Many, many times more than 121.5. Think spotlight vs floodlight.
There are specific situations to "home" to a 406 but its not NEARLY normal. If everyone registered their beacon, there wouldn't be.

Re; leaving the satellites monitoring- they did for several years, right? COSPAS/SARSAT is multi-national, so we switched with the rest of the developed world. Thats a pretty dang big improvement in itself. Think international travel.

EPIRBs/PLBs---All 406 - a decade now probably? The holdouts are in aviation…I don't get that part. After lives are lost every year and some make this very website…. Still?

I personally contribute it to the level of non-factual data on the internet (tho thats gotten better I suppose). Needing 121.5 is one of those.
I don't know of anyone who has stopped in our office (or listened to one of the many presentations), saw what the system actually does and left still thinking it sucks. I honestly believe in the system because I have saw lives saved that wouldn't be with that old junk. I wouldn't let my kids in an aircraft without one!

Sorry for the thread drift.
Lets see some 185 pics.

hotrod180 wrote:

Cary wrote:.........Another issue of having a 406 that doesn't have 121.5 is that not all SAR groups have the capability yet of homing onto a 406 signal--they need the 121.5 signal. So it's IMHO it's important to have an ELT with both frequencies. ........

IMHO the whole 406 ELT thing is/was a solution in search of a problem. Since the search teams need it anyway, and the airliners monitor it as they overfly the country hither & yon, what would be wrong with the darn satellites just monitoring 121.5?

Several very valid reasons to go 406:

1). The 406 signal permits transmitting DATA via the satellites. Couldn't do that on 121.5, at least not practically. The 406 is a digital signal, so can carry data such as registration and GPS coordinates.

2). The 406 signal goes out in a VERY short burst transmission. Because it's short and not that frequent, it can be transmitted at a much higher power (5 watts) compared to the continuous transmission of the 121.5 signal (not sure, but it's down in the hundreds of milliwatts). Better chance of getting a signal out in difficult situations, like damaged antenna, upside down plane, etc.

3). The ability to ID owners of an alerting beacon in many cases eliminates searches for beacons that were inadvertently activated. False alerts were a huge problem with the 121.5 beacons, and still are to some degree.

MTV

AK-HUNT wrote:EPIRBs/PLBs---All 406 - a decade now probably? The holdouts are in aviation…I don't get that part. After lives are lost every year and some make this very website…. Still?

I personally contribute it to the level of non-factual data on the internet (tho thats gotten better I suppose). Needing 121.5 is one of those.

Yep, there you go....that right there is more of that internet non factual data....

In matter of fact, virtually ALL the PLBs and EPIRBs currently being produced transmit on both 406 and 121.5. In fact, that E.L.T. beacon is the only ELT/PLB/EPIRB I've found that DOESN"T transmit on 121.5.

Holdouts in aviation, eh???

Must be some valid reason these manufacturers almost all still install a dual transmitter. They all refer to the 121.5 frequency as a "homing" frequency.

Go figure.

MTV

MTV

AK-HUNT wrote:AEROPOD
I hope you have a 406. somebody returning that favor isnt much. Searchers search till the beacon quit - but without satellite listen they just aren't found reliable. 50/50 maybe. And even then it takes ALONG time. I wouldn't wanna be hanging in straps bleeding for 24 hrs. I just spend the $600.

Best part- every one of those not found 121.5s, the owner has no idea he's flying without anything then....till annual..(but had no idea how little help a 121.5 is to affecting rescue in the 1st place I guess)

There was my pitch-
everyone buy a 406 pls. And register it. You owe it to the guys flying all night in the snowstorm to get u.

(sorry for the hijack - usually one of the AKRCC guys speak at the Ak Airman show. Get your facts there. Or callem. 24/7. Theres a lot more fiction than fact online)

I have no illusions about the accuracy of 121.5 searching. My buddy was flying a 737 into PHX one night. On the arrival, his FO saw a light blinking SOS. They told approach control what they saw and did a 360 over the light to verify along with listening on 121.5. Sure enough, there was somebody down there looking for help. They reported radial AND DME to PHX approach. My buddy is flying the same arrival into PHX the next 2 nights and still hears the ELT on 121.5 both nights. 2 weeks later he is back in PHX and asks approach if they got the guy out. Approoach reports that it took 4-5 days to get to them and by the time they got there everyone was dead. Would this have been any different with 406? I'm not sure since my buddy gave a position that was really accurate already.

Good stuff Phil, back into it again!!!!
Couple of comments, do you have the 5/6th seat in and if so how is it affected by the lowering of the extended baggage floor panel? It's something I'm considering since I have the firewall battery, but I also use the 5/6th seat in mine.
I have also been looking at the Steene strut cuffs, do you anticipate keeping the rubbers on the struts as well or are the the cuffs a replacement. I know the cuffs are cheaper than replacing the rubbers !!
Firewall battery is great and can easily be jump started through the oil inspection panel if necessary.......been there and managed a start with the little antigravity battery MTV mentioned.
It would be interesting to see what starter you get, keep in mind a continuation of the mods with a light prop and get a starter compatible. Starter type, adapter type, power source and prop weight all need to be considered for trouble free starting issues.....unfortunately been there too.

.

With Mikes comment above about the 121.5, thats the only way I found out my old kannad elt was full of water and corrosion. CAP picked it up while they where out doing touch and go's, landed, then tracked it to my plane. I would have never known my elt was junk until i either pushed the test button or sat on a gravel bar for days waiting for help that never showed.
Sounds like your going to have a nice ride!! Enjoy!

NZMaule wrote:...do you have the 5/6th seat in and if so how is it affected by the lowering of the extended baggage floor panel?

No Ivor I don't. And my kids are grown up and gone so have no need for 5 & 6.

NZMaule wrote:I have also been looking at the Steene strut cuffs, do you anticipate keeping the rubbers on the struts as well or are the the cuffs a replacement. I know the cuffs are cheaper than replacing the rubbers !!

The rubbers don't interfere with the cuffs so you could keep them if you wished, but mine were ratty so I ripped the out. The Steene cuffs are good quality, no complaints there. After I had them mounted, using rivnuts, I took a heat gun and some pieces of pvc pipe and worked them so they have a near tight fit.

NZMaule wrote:Firewall battery is great and can easily be jump started through the oil inspection panel if necessary.......been there and managed a start with the little antigravity battery MTV mentioned.

I thought MTV was kidding about the antigravity battery but looked it up and watched a bunch of videos. Then searched here and found good praise and real world experience so ordered one through Amazon Prime. Paid $105 with free shipping instead of $150+. I plan on mounting some remote charging/jumping posts just inside the oil inspection door if I can't easily get to the battery posts.

NZMaule wrote:It would be interesting to see what starter you get, keep in mind a continuation of the mods with a light prop and get a starter compatible. Starter type, adapter type, power source and prop weight all need to be considered for trouble free starting issues.....unfortunately been there too.

I ordered the Hartzell M-Drive. Decided on that because of Hartzell's very long history with Continental engines and their adapters, and the fact that the drive is clutched so it instantly backs away from the starter adapter when the key is released or the engine reverses. Hartzell's claims there is no way the adapter can be harmed.

So the first item is here, the Garmin GTN 650. Weighs more then I expected. Seven pounds. Be interesting to see what I'm replacing weighs.

Me? Joke about a battery?? Not this time. But, dang the price went up in the last couple months. Bought one with free shipping for $99 just a while back.

They work, and I was serious about using it routinely for recharging portables....my purpose.

MTV

Burl's Seaplane Firewall Battery Mount arrived today. Looks great. Looking forward to starting the work on these mods.

roamak wrote:With Mikes comment above about the 121.5, thats the only way I found out my old kannad elt was full of water and corrosion. CAP picked it up while they where out doing touch and go's, landed, then tracked it to my plane. I would have never known my elt was junk until i either pushed the test button or sat on a gravel bar for days waiting for help that never showed.
Sounds like your going to have a nice ride!! Enjoy!

Pretty sure I worked yours. 121.5 was transmitting but the 406 not? Had Ray leave deactivate?
That was one of the anomalies. Nobody had ever even heard of that.