I bought a couple sets of the inflatable life jackets (not automatic, the pull-tab versions) and I've had them on the plane since the floats went on.

Neither of my instructors ever put one on. They said the risk of being trapped in a submerged float plane by a life jacket that was inflated by accident was greater than the risk of escaping a crashed plane and subsequently drowning. We always had them on the back seat, near at hand, but I'm pretty sure they would not be readily accessible in the event of a crash.

My wife and I are taking emergency egress training next month but I'm curious to know whether the experienced people on here wear life jackets while flying floats.

I don't swim very well in jeans and boots.

What say the voices of experience?

I've heard positions on this both way from both new and experienced aviators, I do keep a full complement on board for the total number of seat. I offer them to any and all who may wish to don one with instruction on use and risks associated. I do not don one myself, pot calling kettle black I suppose but its a personal choice and I've witness unfortunate outcomes both ways !!

Years ago, it was common for people to forego seatbelts, saying they thought their odds were better if they were thrown clear of the wreckage. And, of course, in about one in 10,000 car wrecks, they’re right.

This line about getting trapped by an accidentally inflating life vest is the same thing. Get the ones made for aviation — the ones with the beads, not the T handle — and there’s a vanishingly small chance they’ll get deployed accidentally. If you’re submerged and inverted, there’s no way you’ll be able to retrieve them from the back seat. You won’t even think of it till you’re treading water, wishing you’d worn the vest.

So, to answer the question, this low-time seaplane pilot says “yay.” And to a flight instructor, I’d say “put it on or this lesson is over.” You’re the PIC, and when he drowns his heirs will come after you.

If you’re flying with a seaplane instructor who refuses to wear a “seaplane appropriate” PFD, Find another instructor. Period. There are too many of these kinds of old wives tales out there...... If the CFI or passenger was in MY plane, they’re MY responsibility, and they’d WEAR a PFD.

I’ve had friends who drowned after a seaplane accident without PFDs, I have friends who are still with us who wore PFDs and escaped and survived.

I spent somewhere over 8000 hours in seaplanes, and I honestly can’t recall ever not wearing a PFD while in a seaplane. If you think egressing an inverted seaplane while wearing a PFD (again, an appropriate type), your upcoming egress training will change your mind, believe me.

I can stay afloat for a long time in warm water, but most water isn’t that warm. And, if you happened to have been injured even slightly in the upset, your odds of surviving even more without floatation.

And, if your CFIs argue that those stupid “airline type” non wearable things that some stuff in the seat pockets, then ignore for decades are a reasonable solution.....call BS.

Egressing a seaplane while wearing an inflatable is a piece of cake. Trying to FIND the seat pocket let alone retrieve and hold onto one of those things while a cockpit is filling with water would be a real challenge.

Buy some wearable PFDs, take them to your egress training, and use them there. Then, at least once a year, just before float season, yank that inflation lanyard, and leave the vest inflated for a day. No leaks? Install a new inflation cartridge, and good for another season.

And good for you for taking egress training AND for putting your spouse through it as well. Some of the best training you’ll ever get.

MTV

The training will go a long way to informing your decision.

The comment on the beaded lanyard vs. T-handle is appreciated. Thanks.

In my airplane, if we’re planning a water departure or arrival, you’re wearing an inflatable PFD or you’re not flying with me. Period. If we’re flying runway to runway, then not, but if could affect my decision making if there’s a forced landing on route. I might pick solid ground over a water landing.

I’ve completed egress training, and passengers get a sobering, if not morbid, pre-flight briefing.

100% what MTV says. I've done egress training in advanced pool simulators every 3 years for the last 20, the last couple with EUBA. No substitute. I wear lifejackets over water, and insist any passengers also wear them. I'd encourage the whole family to do the "polar bear swim" on New Year's day (could be child abuse these days). Bracing, and you realize how short a time your limbs will keep moving in cold water.

The lifejacket I wore last week was beaded, others are T-handle. Never thought about the difference. We also carry small PLB's in the jacket pockets. This is a 400nm jump from Guyana to Tobago, at least the water's warm.

From a logic standpoint it's pretty simple: If you don't believe you can swim far enough or long enough in your boots and jeans, then it doesn't matter if you get entangled by the life jacket while trying to exit the aircraft, since you're going to drown regardless.

On the other hand, you might not get entangled, so your chances of survival go up by wearing the PFD.

I wear the Stearns Nomex Aviation vest for every flight. It’s on even if I’m just doing laps in the pattern. In my vest I have my Sat Phone, PLB, laser pointer, first aid kit, survival kit, energy bars, and some misc. I have additional vests that contain all of the above except the sat phone for whomever flies with me. It is not an option. You wear a vest. I have a very heathy respect for water whether it a pond or the ocean. Wearing the vest for every flight is just like making sure I have the proper amount of fuel for the flight I’m about to take. Some may think this is overkill. Everyone has their own comfort level when it comes to being prepared and doing things safely. This is mine. Oh and by the way, I’m on wheels.



I do have one complaint about the vests I have. They don’t have any reflective material on them which can be extremely useful in a search and rescue situation.

In formers lives, I have participated in underwater recovery teams. We were always required to wear a inflatable life vest.
Very simple vest that had a CO2 cartridge you could discharge or you could blow it up with a inflation tube, next to you chin. It cushioned around your neck, in case you were unconscious or disabled, would keep your head afloat and stable. ( I only used one in training) Having done cold water dives, 40-50' water temps, hypothermia will set in very quickly and you have 15 mins at most, to get extracted. In saying this, if you are not water familiar and a good swimmer, the panic level and stress escalates tenfold. Hummm... I'm flying my Mirage to the Bahamas, Cuba and possibly Dominican Republic. I'm flying with a raft and vests. Dave B

Great conversation. I've never heard of beads or t-handles. I have these:

https://www.pacificcoastavionics.com/pr ... -vest.aspx

But I only wear them if I'm going to cross any significant amount of water, like Prince William Sound, and I'm careful to be within gliding distance of the ground, but that doesn't mean it's the best option.

I have always thought that ditching the airplane right next to a beach (if it's not big or flat enough to land on) and swimming to shore would be a better option than the mountains. My thoughts are based on this:

https://www.juneauempire.com/news/small ... -reported/

I figured if those people survived without life jackets, I would have a good chance.

Open to thoughts/feedback. I want to be safe.

schu

akgreg, that vest looks perfect. I was pondering how to wear both my survival vest and the lifejacket and was concerned I'd start to feel mummified.

On my Christmas list now, thanks.

Sounds like my instincts were good on this, thanks to all responders.

We wear Mustang vests when over water. Did egress training with it on and absolutely no issues. Seatbelts fit fine with it.

If you plane sinks I will guarantee you will not survive very long without a vest or some serious survival swimming training.

TD

akgreg wrote:I wear the Stearns Nomex Aviation vest for every flight. It’s on even if I’m just doing laps in the pattern. In my vest I have my Sat Phone, PLB, laser pointer, first aid kit, survival kit, energy bars, and some misc. I have additional vests that contain all of the above except the sat phone for whomever flies with me. It is not an option. You wear a vest. I have a very heathy respect for water whether it a pond or the ocean. Wearing the vest for every flight is just like making sure I have the proper amount of fuel for the flight I’m about to take. Some may think this is overkill. Everyone has their own comfort level when it comes to being prepared and doing things safely. This is mine. Oh and by the way, I’m on wheels.



I do have one complaint about the vests I have. They don’t have any reflective material on them which can be extremely useful in a search and rescue situation.

I hate to date myself, but I worked with Eagle and Stevens to design the cover for that vest. We were required to wear Nomex gear, but then we were putting nylon covered vests over top of the Nomex. Duh.

So, I called Stearns and asked if they’d consider making some vests with Nomex covers and lots of pockets. The lady at Stearns called Eagle and asked if there was a market, and the guys at Eagle said yes. So, Stearns sent me a “blank” vest cover, and a bunch of different pockets, and said pin them where you want them. I spent a couple weeks doing so with input from several pilots.

Sent that prototype to Stearns and two weeks later a finished vest showed up in the mail. I wore it for a month, we suggested a few changes, and Stearns put them in production, with Eagle as their exclusive distributor.

Sometimes when you need something there is a company out there who’ll make it work.

MTV

Makes perfect sense that you were a part of it Mike since they are apparently made for people who are height challenged. Damn thing only goes to my belly button.

akgreg wrote:Makes perfect sense that you were a part of it Mike since they are apparently made for people who are height challenged. Damn thing only goes to my belly button.

I’ve found that it’s okay to wear a shirt under them.....oh, and pants too

MTV

"I’ve found that it’s okay to wear a shirt under them.....oh, and pants too "

Now that's a lot more then we needed to know, yikes

StuBob wrote:.......
This line about getting trapped by an accidentally inflating life vest is the same thing. Get the ones made for aviation — the ones with the beads, not the T handle — and there’s a vanishingly small chance they’ll get deployed accidentally. ......

Ive seen so.e nice "float coats" (including sleeveless versions) that have the pull-to-inflate knob located inside a rip-it-open velcroed pkcket. Seems like itd be hard to deploy them accidently. But nothing is foolproof....

Everyone that gets on my plane gets a set of the float suspenders, period. I have the faa approved ones in the bags, realistically getting out of the plane and remembering the bag, opening it with cold hands is improbable at best. I had an faa mechanical inspector tell me the suspenders weren't legal because they weren't faa approved. Funny that every faa poi that has given me a checkrideride has worn mine or had their own.

So if industry can figure out a way around proper spin testing for aircraft certification and proper pilot spin training with a BRS system for GA aircraft, why can't they sort out a "deploy-able" life raft system. Some sort of small, external load, low drag signature, light weight with automatic release and inflation.

Hey am I on to something here, is this my "financial" freedom calling me !!!!