My Lycoming doesn't enjoy starting below about 35F. It will start, but it's a chore. So I have used a Reiff "standard" preheater with the oil cooler option for the entire time I've owned her, nearly 10 years. I also have a Kennon cover for the cowl and covers for the spinner and prop blades. Earlier this cold season, I didn't bother with the covers, and the difference in engine temperature was significant--about a 50 degree difference in my unheated hangar, ambient temp at 20F.

I had an adjustable thermostat rigged up to turn on the preheater at about 45F and off again at 50F, and for many years that has worked well. But recently the thermostat failed, so I bought the cell phone switch box from Reiff. But initially, it wouldn't work, so for the past 2 months, I've just left the heater plugged in all of the time. That seemed incredibly wasteful to me, though, so I was anxious to get the cellphone box working.

I contacted Reiff, and although he doesn't offer real support, he had some ideas for me to try--which didn't work, unfortunately. Meanwhile I also contacted the manufacturer of the switch, Witura, in Malaysia. I got some email correspondence going with one of their support folk, which was fun to read--pidgin English--which suddenly stopped over the holidays; he had gone on vacation. When he returned, the emails started again, and finally one day he asked for the box's phone number. About 3 days later, he told me that my box was now working fine--and it's true. He had fixed it remotely all the way from Malaysia!

So now I have everything working just fine. I can text the box to turn it on, and I get a text back telling me that it has turned on, and vice versa.

I also have an interior heater installed under the passenger seat, which comes on with the engine heater. It's a 120v fan heater, designed to heat the interior of cars--a pretty common device in Canada and Alaska--and it's great because it not only heats the cabin but also the instruments.

Cary

The cost of pre-heating is small compared to wearing out an engine faster than you need to. When I'm at the airport tiedown I plug in the night before I fly when the temp is between 40-50. I have a heavy engine cover and only use the little buddy heater. It gets the entire compartment hot,especially the fuel line and carb, not just the oil pand and cylinder. This has been a proven method for me and many Alaskan flyers. When I'm remote without power I use a propane heater. It puts out a bit of moisture but not anything to worry about and I can walk away while it does it thing. I used to use a Northern Companion, but you have to sit at the plane the entire time making sure a huge flame doesn't shoot up the pipe into the engine. An Ol' timer told me he use to drain the oil and bring it in the cabin and set it next to the wood stove and poured it back in the next time he went flying. If you fly in extreme conditions, nothing is overkill!

The northern companion unit is $635! Talk about proud! It's based on an MSR XGK stove and not much more than some aluminum legs and pipe mounted to some scat hose. Make your own:

http://www.rei.com/product/722001/msr-xgk-ex-stove

Scolopax wrote:Any experience with this unit?
http://www.fadodge.com/index.php?option=com_djcatalog2&view=item&id=119%3Anortherncompainionpreheater&cid=20%3Afeatured&Itemid=53

Scolopax wrote:Any experience with this unit?
http://www.fadodge.com/index.php?option=com_djcatalog2&view=item&id=119%3Anortherncompainionpreheater&cid=20%3Afeatured&Itemid=53

That link is slow for me for some reason, but is that supposed to be for a Northern Companion? If so, I've used one for almost a decade. I like it a lot for times/ places where there's no electricity. The housing is well-made, stores neatly and compactly, and includes a pot for unplanned camp-out situations. The guts of the thing is an MSR XGK, which is the gold standard for a lot of old-school mountaineers and expeditions. GK stands for Gasoline/Kerosene. In reality, you can run it on damn near anything, including Avgas. Even more important, they are meant to be field-repairable. Stuff breaks. But an XGK you can just about fix with a rock if you had to. I've never been unable to get heat out of one in 30 years of mountaineering, winter camping and high altitude. If Napalm in the morning smells like victory, then the sounds of an XGK starting up is the sound of everything-gonna-be-alright.
So, bulletproof, burns airplane gas, doubles as survival gear. What's not to like?

Like any heater that uses airflow, you do want to vent the air out the opposite side of the cowl. It's the flow of warm air that gets the job done.
Also, the fireball thing is overstated, provided you know how to prime the thing and keep it in good working order. The good thing about the rigid fuel line on the older ones is that it makes it easy to yank the stove out of a tent/ snowcave/ engine heater. But personally I wouldn't leave my airplane unattended around any open flame, and if you don't have a fire extinguisher already, well why the heck not?

I'm no aircraft owner, but MTV's comment about a hangar burning down kinda made sense to me. Regardless of the quality of the heater, it seems a little sketchy to me to be turning on a heating device remotely and trusting that it won't burn down your/the entire row of hangars. (Bear in mind, my knowledge of heaters, their output, and their ability to start a fire is limited, so I could be barking up the wrong conversation).

I have the homemade version of a Northern Companion. I'm with DP on this one; it works great and I rely on it exclusively when I am not at my tiedown. In typical southcentral AK winter weather, a 1hr preheat with the "Northern Companion" followed by a little soak time (per MTV) while I am peeling covers and loading the plane and we are ready to go. The moisture from a fuel fired preheat system tends to condense on the inside of the cowling and there is some small chance of a flareup so I stand by with a fire extinguisher.

I use a Reif preheat system (sump pad and bands) at my tiedown and plug into a timer switch in the evening if I plan to fly the next day.

Kodiakmack wrote:I'm no aircraft owner, but MTV's comment about a hangar burning down kinda made sense to me. Regardless of the quality of the heater, it seems a little sketchy to me to be turning on a heating device remotely and trusting that it won't burn down your/the entire row of hangars. (Bear in mind, my knowledge of heaters, their output, and their ability to start a fire is limited, so I could be barking up the wrong conversation).

Do you have a thermostat in your house?

Here are a few pictures of the light activated cell phone switch I use, it works well for me although the SIM card method may be more user friendly. The switch is a kit and requires soldering together, i built the rest using sheet metal, JB Weld, some din rail mount receptacles and an indicator light.

[url][URL=http://s813.photobucket.com/user/Thorvin/media/image_zps5a4e8b7e.jpg.html][/url][/url]
[url][URL=http://s813.photobucket.com/user/Thorvin/media/image_zps996948f8.jpg.html][/url][/url]
[url][URL=http://s813.photobucket.com/user/Thorvin/media/image_zps48b77d0e.jpg.html][/url][/url]

If you are fortunate enough to have wifi at your hangar, here's another even less expensive option, with no monthly fees, for remote control of a heater etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Electronic ... emo+switch

Uses and iPhone or Android app to control.

bumper

If I had wifi, I could have wifi at my hangar, if I had a hangar.

denalipilot wrote:If I had wifi, I could have wifi at my hangar, if I had a hangar.

I thought Obama had a program to get free broadband to all you folks in "disadvantaged" remote areas?

scottf wrote:

Kodiakmack wrote:I'm no aircraft owner, but MTV's comment about a hangar burning down kinda made sense to me. Regardless of the quality of the heater, it seems a little sketchy to me to be turning on a heating device remotely and trusting that it won't burn down your/the entire row of hangars. (Bear in mind, my knowledge of heaters, their output, and their ability to start a fire is limited, so I could be barking up the wrong conversation).

Do you have a thermostat in your house?

Hey, like I said, I'm no expert. Yes, I have a thermostat at my house that is exactly designed to turn on my legally rated furnace that is made for the job it does and that isn't anywhere near any combustibles. I wouldn't compare a thermostat/furnace to a cheap heater hooked to a cell phone inside a cowling with flammable fluids and covered by blankets or sleeping bags. I understand the convenience of having a timed heater, but I guess my personal preference (if I had an airplane and hangar) would be to have a dragon heater like we used growing up. It only takes a few minutes and I can supervise the whole thing....

scottf wrote:

Kodiakmack wrote:I'm no aircraft owner, but MTV's comment about a hangar burning down kinda made sense to me. Regardless of the quality of the heater, it seems a little sketchy to me to be turning on a heating device remotely and trusting that it won't burn down your/the entire row of hangars. (Bear in mind, my knowledge of heaters, their output, and their ability to start a fire is limited, so I could be barking up the wrong conversation).

Do you have a thermostat in your house?

Where he's at it just runs the air conditioner !!

Hey you guys gotta simmer down...
Kodiakmack, A thermostat at home is equivalent to a remote switch to turn on heat source. Furnace has oil or gas connected directly to it. Cell phone in this case is just a remote switch to also turn on heat source, in my case an approved aircraft engine preheating system from Reiff intended for the purpose. The 120v power run to the system is on its own breaker for short circuit protection and supplied through a ground fault receptacle, my fuel is in the wings and my fuel selector is off. I can't say that Ive ever heard of a pre heating hangar fire or explosion although I'm sure they have happened, just as I'm sure there have been fires caused by faulty/incorrectly installed furnaces. Just Sayin

bowie wrote:Hey you guys gotta simmer down...
Kodiakmack, A thermostat at home is equivalent to a remote switch to turn on heat source. Furnace has oil or gas connected directly to it. Cell phone in this case is just a remote switch to also turn on heat source, in my case an approved aircraft engine preheating system from Reiff intended for the purpose. The 120v power run to the system is on its own breaker for short circuit protection and supplied through a ground fault receptacle, my fuel is in the wings and my fuel selector is off. I can't say that Ive ever heard of a pre heating hangar fire or explosion although I'm sure they have happened, just as I'm sure there have been fires caused by faulty/incorrectly installed furnaces. Just Sayin

Agreed man. I'm not trying to be an expert on the discussion, more even asking a question. It just seems a bit sketchy to me and is not what I would do : )

No worries Kodiakmak, Good Luck in Alaska keep us posted, good to see someone follow their dream. Next year this time I think you'll know as much about pre-heat as anyone here

I think that Kodiakmak just needs to understand that there's nothing cheap or cobbled about either a Reiff or a Tanis heater. Actually, a Red Dragon, with its flame and hot air, is a whole lot more problematic, even if it's being watched constantly. Couple of reasons: First, the air can be hot enough to damage plastic and rubber components and burn the paint of the cowl, and second, if it's only used long enough to get the engine warm enough to start, it's really not warm enough to reduce the wear and tear of a cold start.

In contrast, a Reiff or Tanis heats the engine slowly over a much longer time with a relatively small amount of electricity--Reiff recommends 12 hours. Putting a cowl cover (whether that's a fitted cowl cover or a sleeping bag) over the engine just insures that it will be keeping in the heat, which will benefit the heating process, too--hardly dangerous. For instance, my Reiff "standard" system has a total wattage of only 325 watts, 4 50 watt cylinder bands, a 100 watt sump heater, and a 25 watt oil cooler heater. I have a 900 watt Kats interior heater mounted under the passenger seat, blowing hot air toward the panel. (I have the same model interior heater in my RAV4) So the total draw is only 1225 watts, well within the capacity of a 15 amp circuit. These are all professionally created heating systems, not jury-rigged, every bit as reliable as any home heating system.

If I have my cowl cover on and have my Reiff system going for the recommended 12 hours, when I reach into the cowl and touch the engine, it's warm to the touch. My Insight shows that the CHTs are around 110 to 120F and the carb is at about 65F, with the ambient temp between 15F and 20F. The cabin is also comfortably warm, but not hot, around 70F to 75F.

I can't deny that in an absolutely worst case scenario, something might go wrong, but the only "wrong" I've had is simply the failure of a heating element on the Reiff and the failure of the blower on the KATS interior heater. The sump heater on my Reiff came unglued after a few years, undoubtedly because I failed to adequately glue it on, and it burned out, i.e., just quit, so I replaced it. Just last week, I replaced the KATS interior heater, because the bearings on the motor failed, so that it was only putting out heat but not fanned heat. Since it had a built-in thermostat which shut it off before it could do any damage, it just meant that it still put out heat but wasn't as efficient as before.

In contrast, I've had the heat exchangers on 3 home furnaces fail over the years, requiring the replacement of the entire furnace. I've had bearings go out on home furnace blowers and I've had other electrical problems which required replacing parts rather than entire furnaces. Nothing man-made is perfect, but I think the chances of burning down a whole row of hangars with either a Reiff or Tanis system is pretty remote, to say the least.

Cary

bumper wrote:

denalipilot wrote:If I had wifi, I could have wifi at my hangar, if I had a hangar.

I thought Obama had a program to get free broadband to all you folks in "disadvantaged" remote areas?

That sounds more like Uncle Ted in the old days, actually.

I put a preheater together with my 25 year old Whisperlite and a small 12v fan to power off my PV panel. Scat tubing was mega expensive...using an all aluminum dryer vent hose, and a round vent adapter to wire to the stove. If anyone is interested, PM me and Ill send pix. A half hour warms the carb and oil enough to make starting at 0F in the 182 a real possibility, and an hour gets the lower end up to perhaps 40. This morning I started from -2F, and no power was available for the electric heat. It took me just over an hour to get off the ground.

I already fly with the stove and the PV on the hat rack. It is a bit contraption-y, and it takes at least 5 minutes to start the process on a good day.

denalipilot wrote:

bumper wrote:

denalipilot wrote:If I had wifi, I could have wifi at my hangar, if I had a hangar.

I thought Obama had a program to get free broadband to all you folks in "disadvantaged" remote areas?

That sounds more like Uncle Ted in the old days, actually.

Would of liked Uncle Ted in the old days!

I was on the Mooney list back when. Well, at least back in the early '90's or so, but acquired more aircraft and spent even more time growing a small company. . . kind of neglected the list for a decade or so. But kept the Mooney and here I am again, all retired and still staying busy.

Does anyone here remember who came up with UDITWOF?? (upside down in the weeds on fire) In the "old days" someone on the list, name escapes me, was "famous" for warning of that dire consequence for most any situation.

EDIT: Holy bananas I must be getting old! For some reason I thought I was posting on the MooneySpace list . . . 69th coming up and I'm too young to be loosin' it!

bumper