Cool vid Nushi.

Focus on technique. Everything above is spot on. Finding the sweet spot on step is critical in short water and not being comfortable getting to it can eat up a lot of water. Also understanding the step turn, personally I find having good technique managing the step once on it can eliminate the need for a step turn. There are places that require them and you should be comfortable being there. Understand using the center of buoyancy and shifting it on step to help manage the type of turn you need and the wind you are in.

Go find a big lake and just practice on the water. Use a reduced power setting and simulate high DA, high load conditions and see how much lake you eat up getting on step, breaking water, and also how much you need to stop. Always have a decision point to abort the takeoff. Also having a touchdown point is critical, even though these things stop fast once on the water. Go sit at Lake Hood next Summer and watch how long some will land and how unstable it becomes trying to force a float plane down, often bouncing and eating up even more water. If you start flying to pot hole lakes and rivers, managing the approach becomes very important.

Alaska needs float pilots bad right now, next Summer. I just flew with a Kenmore guy who said even they are starting to struggle getting pilots. Burke Meese wrote a book years ago that might still be around about flying floats.

I've shared this one before, but I feel the J takeoff makes our small lake work. I don't think I can get on the step and accelerating in the same distance going straight out. Under 82 F or winds less than 8 I can get out with light fuel and and small passenger pretty comfortably using this technique. But if loaded or winds above 8 mph (rotor effect coming off the trees near the channel entrance) I make the long pilgrimage to another lake for departure.

Zzz wrote:….. I'm fantasizing about owning lake property. Not all lakes are created equal, obviously. And here in Oregon they're sparse. Back east you can be quite discriminating. Lots of factors involved in choosing where you'd want to sink your money.....

I'd suggest really doing your due diligence.
I'll bet people living on a nice quiet lake would be bitching to the cops, the county, and anyone else who'd listen
if someone started regularly operating a floatplane on their little piece of heaven...
even if it wasn't really any louder than the ski boats etc.

Another thing is local regs and/or zoning...
years ago, a guy I knew was gonna buy a home on a nearby lake & keep his floatplane(s) there.
I think he made the mistake of talking too openly to the county (or his potential neighbors) about his plans.
I guess they couldn't outright ban seaplanes from that lake,
but they did enact a "speed limit" on it (for safety's sake, you understand) that effectively eliminated seaplanes.

hotrod180 wrote:

Zzz wrote:….. I'm fantasizing about owning lake property. Not all lakes are created equal, obviously. And here in Oregon they're sparse. Back east you can be quite discriminating. Lots of factors involved in choosing where you'd want to sink your money.....

I'd suggest really doing your due diligence.
I'll bet people living on a nice quiet lake would be bitching to the cops, the county, and anyone else who'd listen
if someone started regularly operating a floatplane on their little piece of heaven...
even if it wasn't really any louder than the ski boats etc.

Another thing is local regs and/or zoning...
years ago, a guy I knew was gonna buy a home on a nearby lake & keep his floatplane(s) there.
I think he made the mistake of talking too openly to the county (or his potential neighbors) about his plans.
I guess they couldn't outright ban seaplanes from that lake,
but they did enact a "speed limit" on it (for safety's sake, you understand) that effectively eliminated seaplanes.

Yes, it's a deep, deep rabbit hole.

That's one thing I appreciate about Minnesota floatplane flying. There will always be somebody who complains, but for the most part the population has either grown up with or grown accustomed to floatplanes (we're fairly ubiquitous here) on the waters. Just as you want to be a good neighbor with a jet ski etc and not spend all your time in front of one shoreline doing water donuts RRRR...RRRR....RR...RRRR.., so with a floatplane keep arrivals and departures to a minimum on the same water and most everybody is happy. Training flights around here just hop from lake to lake instead of all the time being spent on one body of water.

The MSPA is also active with local and state regulators.

Its a small lake, 1500 feet, in front of my property (600 feet MSL). This is the solution for me. I sold my Stinson 108-1.

Zzz wrote:I watched a Rust's Otter do a turning takeoff from their little bay into the channel and he was airborn in what looked like 100 ft.

There is your answer, get an Otter.

That's pretty cool, Stinsoner. Looks like a nice spot.

I'm a pretty fresh float pilot, so take my suggestion with a grain of salt, but perhaps carry a little more speed or power into your flare for a smoother touchdown? Not much suspension in that float rigging, and the airplane slows rapidly when it falls off step anyway. I am excited to actually go practice efficient takeoffs to avoid dragging the heels when horsing it off.

I wonder how the Full Lotus compare to the Puddlejumper and Clamar in weight?

https://www.puddlejumper.com/new-inventory

https://www.clamarfloats.com/1400-2/

stinsoner wrote:Its a small lake, 1500 feet, in front of my property (600 feet MSL). This is the solution for me. I sold my Stinson 108-1.

I’ve always been skeptical of those floats, and these videos show why. Rather than cutting through the water, they almost seem to be pushing it out of the way.

Maybe I’m reading it wrong.....

MTV

This pond is 1.500 feet, 600 feet MSL. Temp +9 C. Pilot + fuel for five hours. Take of is about 300 feet with the Rans S7 with Full Lotus floats.

Headoutdaplane wrote:Density Altitude can make a huge lake very small. Density altitude at 100 degrees an 100 feet at 100' MSL is pretty much the same as a lake at 2500 feet with 85 degrees (those were the temps we were seeing this summer). Turns in the water add drag, that is just a fact, even more so when you are displacing water, all that drag just adds to your total take off run. I have found high time, current, float pilots on both sides of this argument. While not even close to a high time pilot I am getting there and know which side I fall on.

Of course turns on the water lengthen the takeoff run......that’s WHY you use a J-Hook or step turn in the first place: To LENGTHEN the effective area available for your takeoff run.

When you turn a seaplane that’s already on step into the takeoff lane, you’ve effectively shortened the distance needed for takeoff because the airplane is already very near takeoff speed. Again, it depends on the airplane and floats to some degree, but all seaplanes eat up a significant distance just getting on step. Once on step, the plane accelerated fairly quickly, assuming the pilot is competent and current.

Watch a seaplane take off, and pay attention to the distance required to get on step.

The argument that you dare not get close to shore while turning on step is totally dependent on the lake, it’s bottom type and obstacles. The lake I referenced earlier, I could turn on one end of it within less than 50 feet of shore. And, on those PeeKay floats, I’d be just a few knots below takeoff speed on step, with power well back.

But, again, there are a lot of variables. I once went into a small round lake in a Husky. There was a nice breeze, so getting out and over the trees should be okay on departure, but the lake was tight. My hole card was to use a step turn to get out.

Our work there (hiking to pick up a dropped bear radio collar) took longer than planned, and when we got back to the lake it was glassy calm.

And, it turned out the lake was VERY shallow, with a mud bottom. Step turning was impossible because the keels were in the muck and wanted to run straight.

So after some measuring and careful consideration, we slid the heels of the floats as far up on shore as possible, loaded up, and launched. We cleared the trees comfortably, but it was a no shit Vx exersize.

Would I base an airplane at a lake that required me to do turning takeoffs regularly? No thanks, unless it was a situation like Kodiak, where you launch empty out of a small lake, then land in the ocean to load at the city dock. I did lots of those while in Kodiak. Good practice making lots of takeoffs and landings in any case.

MTV

mtv wrote:
because the airplane is already very near takeoff speed.

MTV

I guess that is my point, going downwind you need more space to get on step. Now you are going fast, gonna make a turn to take off (your words were "just below take off speed"). If you had gone straight into the wind you would be on step in less space, with no need to turn and just take off. Step turn take offs are flashy, and pilots do get bored. I am just saying that I havent been in a situation that I have needed to use it. But I am admittedly a sissy.

Headoutdaplane wrote:

mtv wrote:
because the airplane is already very near takeoff speed.

MTV

I guess that is my point, going downwind you need more space to get on step. Now you are going fast, gonna make a turn to take off (your words were "just below take off speed"). If you had gone straight into the wind you would be on step in less space, with no need to turn and just take off. Step turn take offs are flashy, and pilots do get bored. I am just saying that I havent been in a situation that I have needed to use it. But I am admittedly a sissy.

I guess I didn't do a very good job of describing the process. It's not a 180 degree step turn, which gets tight, and takes up space. Rather, if possible, I use a J-Hook turn, or more like an L shape. A short leg to get on step, make a 90 or 100 degree turn, full power and go.

In your example, just getting off the water is only part of the issue.....usually there are also obstacles to clear at the far end....so the sooner we can break water and initiate a climb......

Whatever works for you is fine with me. This is just one of the tools in the toolbox, and like most things seaplane, doesn't necessarily work in every confined area.

MTV

Zzz,

Please take this thread down immediately!

I mean come on, are you guys trying to get me to spend money and get a float rating and floats for my SQ2 or 185- or god forbid both? Trust me, I don't need any additional help spending money on airplanes, I'm quite capable of doing that all on my own. Jeez!

Oh, and David you're not helping either talking about cutting in a float pond at your place, unless of course you are willing to come up here and cut one in for me. Of course that probably would be a wasted effort since there has been a gravel pit next to my place for a half century and it doesn't hold any water.

You guys are killing me here.

Barnstormer wrote:Zzz,

Please take this thread down immediately!

I mean come on, are you guys trying to get me to spend money and get a float rating and floats for my SQ2 or 185- or god forbid both? Trust me, I don't need any additional help spending money on airplanes, I'm quite capable of doing that all on my own. Jeez!

Oh, and David you're not helping either talking about cutting in a float pond at your place, unless of course you are willing to come up here and cut one in for me. Of course that probably would be a wasted effort since there has been a gravel pit next to my place for a half century and it doesn't hold any water.

You guys are killing me here.

Haha. You haven't even been to my new place yet. When you get here you'll see the perfect spot I have picked out for the pond Phil!

Barnstormer wrote:Zzz,

Please take this thread down immediately!

I mean come on, are you guys trying to get me to spend money and get a float rating and floats for my SQ2 or 185- or god forbid both? Trust me, I don't need any additional help spending money on airplanes, I'm quite capable of doing that all on my own. Jeez!

Oh, and David you're not helping either talking about cutting in a float pond at your place, unless of course you are willing to come up here and cut one in for me. Of course that probably would be a wasted effort since there has been a gravel pit next to my place for a half century and it doesn't hold any water.

You guys are killing me here.

I recommended you visit the "Photo Thread: Float Flying and don't delay any longer your missing out on a ton of wet fun

Phil, Phil, Phil.....

Let's see: You live in Alaska, you own TWO, not one, but TWO airplanes, and one of them is not on floats.....Seriously, what is wrong with this picture?

You may recall that I told you ski flying was the most fun you can have in winter......was I wrong?

Well, the good news/bad news is this: Float flying can be even more fun than ski flying. And, you don't even have to pre heat your engine.....most of the time......

So, don't wait for a float pond, find a set of floats......

MTV

Ya he's screwed, one or the other needs to be on floats and get in the game.

Ok ok ok ok. I'm succumbing to peer pressure (thanks Mike). I'm flying to Talkeetna on Thursday or Friday to meet up with Don Lee and see if I can fit in his plane. If I can then I'll schedule my float training.