Sleeping bag is always a must. 2-3lbs in the back luggage compartment just makes it easier to flare on landing.


For fire, primary is a BIC lighter. Secondary is ANOTHER Bic lighter.

Fire and a synthetic sleeping bag should keep me comfortable, if required, plus, a sleeping bag is always nice if sleeping on the couch at an out of the way FBO.

So, umm...I'm not sure how to say this so I'm just going to say it. I can't stand sleeping bags anymore. I've always woken up sweaty, even it was a cold night and I was a bit chilly, but in recent years I've become less tolerant of it. It sucks waking up with sweaty balls so now I mostly just bring a sheet and blankets. I've had my Ajungilak bag for like 15 years and I think it is a decent bag but I've always sweated in it and every other bag I've used. Liners don't seem to help.

I know I'm not alone in this; admitting to waking up feeling like you peed your pants isn't anything a grown man wants to admit. So how do you overcome/prevent it?

whee wrote:So, umm...I'm not sure how to say this so I'm just going to say it. I can't stand sleeping bags anymore. I've always woken up sweaty, even it was a cold night and I was a bit chilly, but in recent years I've become less tolerant of it. It sucks waking up with sweaty balls so now I mostly just bring a sheet and blankets. I've had my Ajungilak bag for like 15 years and I think it is a decent bag but I've always sweated in it and every other bag I've used. Liners don't seem to help.

I know I'm not alone in this; admitting to waking up feeling like you peed your pants isn't anything a grown man wants to admit. So how do you overcome/prevent it?

Try wearing Smartwool it's a gift from heaven! I wear Smartwool everywhere. It keeps me the right temperature and dry too. Not cheap but, worth every cent.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartWool

Whee, take what works for you.....just be sure it'll function in a survival situation, if you're going to use it in that role, as well as a normal camping tool.

Sleeping bags are a very personal preference. For example, Wiggy's has taken the approach that you're always going to be sleeping outside, with no shelter. As a consequence, those bags are really heavily insulated.

When I attended Arctic Survival Training (Cool School) at Eielson AFB in central Alaska, the instructors emphasized the need for shelter in cold temperatures, as well as cool or wet conditions. With a decent shelter, a mega sleeping bag isn't necessary. In fact, it may be a liability.

I broke an axle on a ski plane, and wound up sleeping out on a night when the temperature dropped to -45. As soon as I realized I was spending the night, i constructed a one man shelter, as taught in Cool School, sort of like this: http://achievingadventure.com/blogs/cle ... -the-wild/.

I unrolled my "Arctic Weight" sleeping bag inside this very tight shelter, and crawled in for the night. Within a half hour, I was sweating....heavily. Fortunately, the sleeping bag was synthetic, so it still functioned.

I realize that most folks aren't going to be sleeping out in that kind of temperature, But, the point is, if you build a decent shelter, you really don't need a heavy sleeping bag. Even if you can't build a really tight, closed shelter, if you are wearing PROPER clothing, you can crawl into that "less than Arctic" sleeping bag fully clothed, and combine the warmth of the clothes with the sleeping bag's inherent warmth.

Shelter is a very important "tool" in a true survival situation, even in relatively warm weather. A passing shower, really damp morning dew, etc, can defeat many sleeping bags.

And, as someone noted above, an insulated pad is also an essential tool.

For fire starting, I carry a BlastMatch, a Bic Lighter, and a box of lifeboat matches. Plus some fire starter tabs.

FWIW.

MTV

I carry a down bag, a montbel. The down has always worked well for me and it's warm and light, paired with a thermarest pad I'm always comfortable. I should probably think about a synthetic bag given that I'm flying floats and in a crash scenario likely everything will be soaked but in general I like down and I've always been able to keep my bag dry even when conditions were very wet.
Part of keeping the bag dry is the other survival item I carry, a small tent. I'm flying in BC and a common "survival" situation is getting weathered down and having to wait out the rain. Sitting in your sleeping bag in your plane all night sucks. Building a crappy and not real raintight shelter from nature is no fun. A sil-tarp doesn't usually cut it either. However having a tent makes a night stuck out into just a mundane night of camping in the rain and to my thinking that's a good survival situation. In a crash scenario it'll be good too if I can get it out of the plane.

Just made my first purchase from Wiggy's. The owner Jerry was awesome to deal with. The quality of the Winter Jacket, Sleepingbag, Gloves look great.
Actually hoping for snow now!

whee wrote:So, umm...I'm not sure how to say this so I'm just going to say it. I can't stand sleeping bags anymore. I've always woken up sweaty, even it was a cold night and I was a bit chilly, but in recent years I've become less tolerant of it. It sucks waking up with sweaty balls so now I mostly just bring a sheet and blankets. I've had my Ajungilak bag for like 15 years and I think it is a decent bag but I've always sweated in it and every other bag I've used. Liners don't seem to help.

I know I'm not alone in this; admitting to waking up feeling like you peed your pants isn't anything a grown man wants to admit. So how do you overcome/prevent it?

At home in sheets and blankets, I've slept in the all-together pretty much all my adult life, so I'm comfortable without the constrictions of PJs. But in a sleeping bag, no matter what it's made of, I'm just not comfortable that way--I also get sticky, sweaty, etc. I've tried PJs, and that's not comfortable, either--too much the opposite extreme. So the compromise that seems to work for me is just a shirt and undershorts. If it's really cold, I'll make it a long sleeve shirt, and I might add socks and a watch cap. In warmer weather, cool enough to be covered, I'll leave the bag's zipper unzipped. In really warm weather, rather than sleep on top of the bag, I'll open the bag--too often, I've find myself waking up as the night cools down, so I can just throw the top of the bag over me rather than have to get into it. Whether those routines will work for anyone else, I haven't any idea.

Cary

Pretty simple to just unzip a sleeping bag and lay it over you like a blanket. I do that a lot when it's too warm to zip it up.

courierguy wrote:I've been using two bags for quite a while, a super light/small one and a medium weight/size one, and I take them both most of the time. I was in Smiley Creek near the 4 th. of July, and we had frost on the wings! That way I can mix and match, worse case putting the light one inside the other one and zipping both up. All the way to not using the bigger one at all other then something to lean against in the tent. This gives me lots of options, getting cold isn't one of them.

An important part of my multi option approach to sleeping warm I forgot to mention, a light flannel removable sleeping bag liner. Washable of course, super light, and on a hot night all you need. It keeps the sleeping bag itself clean, and to me anyway feels better.

Plus, I have used a super thick, best quality sheep skin, simply thrown over my TemperFoam seat padding in my last 3 planes. I can if needed use it for more padding underneath me or more warmth on top. PLUS.... I have a Grizzly Creek camp chair, one of those dense foam chairs that puts your butt on the ground and has an adjustable backrest, it's just high density foam with a covering. If I unsnap the adjustable strap that positions the back rest, I have an additional pad underneath me. One more PLUS..... in the winter when on the skis, my engine cozy is an old sleeping bag cut in half, and in a pinch it will also work for sleeping in, at least from the feet up to my waist. Then, there's also the Gore-Tex bivy sack I carry, plus one more, yea, a third bag, that is the heaviest yet. So, light bag inside the medium, both into the heavy, all into the bivy sack, with the camp seat and sheep skin underneath me on top my usual sleeping pad. I got a great deal from Sportsman Warehouse on the medium and heavy bags, also the bivy sack, as a "system." Lastly, I also carry a top quality down pillow, it compresses to almost nothing, and is carried way back in the tail and is the final component for me to a good nights sleep.

One of the things I learned from camping in sub-zero weather is to sleep with anything you don't want to freeze. Like water.

Also remember your breath will frost over your bag, so be VERY careful how you wake up. (You may get a face full of ice)

A little more on topic: I don't think you can go overkill on shelter/sleeping bags. If you have crashed, then you may be injured. In that state, you will need warmth more than ever.

Building a shelter may be out. (Hard to chop wood with a broken arm or leg)

Building a fire would be challenging, too.

ShadowAviator wrote:A little more on topic: I don't think you can go overkill on shelter/sleeping bags. If you have crashed, then you may be injured. In that state, you will need warmth more than ever.

Building a shelter may be out. (Hard to chop wood with a broken arm or leg)

Building a fire would be challenging, too.

Not really. In Cool School, we experimented with preparing and starting a fire, using only one arm. Not as hard as you might think. One reason I carry a blast match is it only takes one hand to operate.

If you're injured, shelter and fire (in cool/cold weather) are even more essential. Don't get lazy and think you can siwash. It's amazing what you can do with some serious impairments.

MTV

mtv wrote:
Not really. In Cool School, we experimented with preparing and starting a fire, using only one arm. Not as hard as you might think. One reason I carry a blast match is it only takes one hand to operate.

If you're injured, shelter and fire (in cool/cold weather) are even more essential. Don't get lazy and think you can siwash. It's amazing what you can do with some serious impairments.

MTV

I didn't mean to downplay shelter and fire.

That is a good thought about practicing with one arm. A good amount of thought should go into gear that can be used one handed. So +1 to that.

What I meant was don't under value warmth specifically from the sleeping bag/bivvy.

Trying to do something while injured is not quite like doing something one handed. I know you know that, but sometimes we underestimate how painful something can be.

Also, it may not be your arm, suppose you broke one leg and sprained the other ankle. Fire would be doable, but shelter would be tricky.

Maybe you have a head injury, maybe you can't think clearly, maybe you keep sorta passing out.

Back injury, perhaps? I have never broken/sprained anything, but I did twist a vertebrate. Before I got treatment, I couldn't really move well, had to walk with an "old person shuffle".

My point is that you may end up in a situation where all you can do is climb into a sleeping bag. So don't worry about splurging a bit to get a nice sleeping bag, and perhaps a bivvy or waterproof shell of some sort.

I agree with you that fire and shelter are very important. Practicing those skills and practicing with a fake injury is an excellent idea. Just don't rely on them too much.

When it comes to a sleeping "system", you really need to pay attention to the insulation under you rather than on top. I'm sure that's well-known, but counter-intuitive.

All sleeping bag materials will compress under your weight and lose their effectiveness, so what you need is some form of insulation under you that does no get squashed to nothing. Generally, mattress pads are too thin to work well. Similarly to a previous poster I use a piece of caribou skin over my self-inflating pad. The individual hollow hairs don't compress and so maintain their insulation value.

Unfortunately, you won't find caribou hide at Walmart!

Of course, I'm thinking about arctic cold rather than temperatures in the (plus) mid-teens (F), so I've probably not added much of value to this discussion.

mtv wrote: Not really. In Cool School, we experimented with preparing and starting a fire, using only one arm. Not as hard as you might think. One reason I carry a blast match is it only takes one hand to operate....

Using one hand in a simulation is one thing,
but it's a whole different show to use one hand when an injury
--other arm broken, broken leg(s), knot on your head. etc--
is causing you extreme pain, esp when you move.

hotrod180 wrote:

mtv wrote: Not really. In Cool School, we experimented with preparing and starting a fire, using only one arm. Not as hard as you might think. One reason I carry a blast match is it only takes one hand to operate....

Using one hand in a simulation is one thing,
but it's a whole different show to use one hand when an injury
--other arm broken, broken leg(s), knot on your head. etc--
is causing you extreme pain, esp when you move.

Yes, just like talking about survival on a web forum isn't the same as actually enduring a true survival situation. Nevertheless, these conversations have value, just as experimenting with simulated injuries provides perspective and knowledge that it can be done.

just as Arctic Survival Training really isn't the same as being in a true survival situation, the skills you practice there give you confidence and knowledge that you CAN survive most situations. After cool school, I broke a ski axle and slept out at -45. It was pretty much a non event, because we'd gone over a lot of scenarios in the training.

My point was and is, however, that if you are injured, shelter and fire (in a Cool or cold environment) are even more vital. Don't believe certain sleeping bag manufacturers claims that all you need is one of their bags and you can survive any conditions.

And actually, severe cold is relatively easy to deal with. Rainy, wet conditions with temps hovering around the freezing mark is some of the toughest conditions to survive, and where shelter is essential.

MTV

mtv wrote:
just as Arctic Survival Training really isn't the same as being in a true survival situation, the skills you practice there give you confidence and knowledge that you CAN survive most situations. After cool school, I broke a ski axle and slept out at -45. It was pretty much a non event, because we'd gone over a lot of scenarios in the training.

My point was and is, however, that if you are injured, shelter and fire (in a Cool or cold environment) are even more vital. Don't believe certain sleeping bag manufacturers claims that all you need is one of their bags and you can survive any conditions.

And actually, severe cold is relatively easy to deal with. Rainy, wet conditions with temps hovering around the freezing mark is some of the toughest conditions to survive, and where shelter is essential.

MTV

NO ONE IS DISAGREEING WITH YOU.

I think you are misunderstanding. I don't think anyone has implied that you ONLY need a sleeping bag.

Think of it like this: Raising a minimum.

So in a survival situation, whats the max you could do? Say you come out with no injuries. You could: Find food. Find water. Build fire. Build shelter. Etc. The limit is your skills and willpower.

BUT the minimum, might be much less. Say you are so severely injured, that you can barely move. Your minimum warmth is that sleeping bag. Get something good. Test it yourself. (Like you said, don't listen to the manufacturer). That way your minimum is as best it can be.

I hope that made sense, words are not my strong suit.

I hang our sleeping bags on our side of the cargo net, in easy reach from the front seats. If I'm busted up bad I can hopefully still push the buttons on the PLB in my chest pack and get the bag around me. If I don't bleed out or burn up the next thing that will kill me before anyone comes along is hypothermia. Dressing properly is important, but it doesn't replace needing a full covering.

ShadowAviator wrote:

mtv wrote:
just as Arctic Survival Training really isn't the same as being in a true survival situation, the skills you practice there give you confidence and knowledge that you CAN survive most situations. After cool school, I broke a ski axle and slept out at -45. It was pretty much a non event, because we'd gone over a lot of scenarios in the training.

My point was and is, however, that if you are injured, shelter and fire (in a Cool or cold environment) are even more vital. Don't believe certain sleeping bag manufacturers claims that all you need is one of their bags and you can survive any conditions.

And actually, severe cold is relatively easy to deal with. Rainy, wet conditions with temps hovering around the freezing mark is some of the toughest conditions to survive, and where shelter is essential.

MTV

NO ONE IS DISAGREEING WITH YOU.

I think you are misunderstanding. I don't think anyone has implied that you ONLY need a sleeping bag.

Think of it like this: Raising a minimum.

So in a survival situation, whats the max you could do? Say you come out with no injuries. You could: Find food. Find water. Build fire. Build shelter. Etc. The limit is your skills and willpower.

BUT the minimum, might be much less. Say you are so severely injured, that you can barely move. Your minimum warmth is that sleeping bag. Get something good. Test it yourself. (Like you said, don't listen to the manufacturer). That way your minimum is as best it can be.

I hope that made sense, words are not my strong suit.

My point was simply DON'T buy a -60 degree sleeping bag, thinking that is the only piece of survival gear that you need. I know that's not what you're suggesting either, but you completly missed what I posted earlier:

If you're flying, you should ALWAYS be dressed appropriately to survive in the environment over which you are flying.

Then, if you are injured so badly in the arrival that you can't move, you at least have some "shelter" in the form of your clothing. If you can get to a sleeping bag, so much the better, but in any case, you're minimally protected. If you can get to your "camping" sleeping bag, wearing your clothing inside the bag will give you more warmth than just the bag alone.

But, if your bag is a -60 or other very cold rated bag, you're going to sweat while in it, and that's not good on a couple of levels.

So, my point was simply consider the clothing you wear on your person while flying to be an integral part of your survival gear. That allows you to use a lighter weight bag which doubles as survival gear and camping gear.

Sorry if I confused anyone.

MTV

mtv wrote:
My point was simply DON'T buy a -60 degree sleeping bag, thinking that is the only piece of survival gear that you need. I know that's not what you're suggesting either, but you completly missed what I posted earlier:

If you're flying, you should ALWAYS be dressed appropriately to survive in the environment over which you are flying.

Then, if you are injured so badly in the arrival that you can't move, you at least have some "shelter" in the form of your clothing. If you can get to a sleeping bag, so much the better, but in any case, you're minimally protected. If you can get to your "camping" sleeping bag, wearing your clothing inside the bag will give you more warmth than just the bag alone.

But, if your bag is a -60 or other very cold rated bag, you're going to sweat while in it, and that's not good on a couple of levels.

So, my point was simply consider the clothing you wear on your person while flying to be an integral part of your survival gear. That allows you to use a lighter weight bag which doubles as survival gear and camping gear.

Sorry if I confused anyone.

MTV

I think we agree with each other and have this entire time. I hate texted based communication.

I guess I thought everyone knew about wearing the right clothing. Though now that I think about those survival shows I have seen, people really don't prepare well.

I have lived out in the country my whole life. We don't even get in a pickup without making sure we have extra clothes if its cold or extra water if its hot.

I suppose to wrap up: Your clothing, survival gear, and survival training should match the environment over which you are flying. (and don't skimp on the sleeping bag )

I'm always surprised to see folks show up in the middle of some really remote country, climb out of their airplane wearing shorts, a t-shirt and flip flops. Wouldn't be my first choice of attire to walk around in the woods in.

Not saying I haven't done something similar before, mind you.....

Last time I flew wearing shorts I crashed. Not saying that's why the crankshaft broke, but a guy can't be too careful......

MTV