How come no one owes me a lunch?????? Or hasn't it been conceded that a W&B is needed yet? I maintain someone owes me a lunch damn it!!!!!!!! Or at the very least, Zane, I should be have my status elevated to "back country Pilot Veteran"!!!!!!!!!!

iceman,

Stop by next Wednesday, and I'll buy you lunch at the best darn restaurant in Crookston. That'd be Subway, by the way.....

MTV

a64pilot wrote:BM,
In asking why a pilot couldn't do the weight and balance after removing the seat in a Maule, the inspector I spoke to tried dodgeing the bullet by saying the pilot couldn't make the return to service entry in the book because he wasn't allowed to remove the seat. When I pointed out the removal proscess was two quick release pins, he still didn't want to admit a pilot would be allowed to pull those pins.
We had a saying in the ARMY. "Don't allow logic to interfere with the military decision making proscess".

You're right, you can't fix stupid. But when he's dodging your question it's because he really doesn't know. Have him explain to you why that would be considered a complex operation when it is specifically listed in part 43, in three places no less. Here they are:

(11) Repairing upholstery and decorative furnishings of the cabin, cockpit, or balloon basket interior when the repairing does not require disassembly of any primary structure or operating system or interfere with an operating system or affect the primary structure of the aircraft.



(14) Replacing safety belts.


(15) Replacing seats or seat parts with replacement parts approved for the aircraft, not involving disassembly of any primary structure or operating system.



A seat is not a primary structure and since there's no other disassembly involved I don't see the problem. I included the seat belt one because a lot of airplanes have the seat belts attached to the seats. No way you're replacing those without first taking the seat out.

where is crookston????? Also where is my new status Zane????

Crookston--18 miles north of Climax....

oh. Just a bit too far for lunch. Not that i have any more of a clue but anyone living close to climax has got to be a good pilot. (spot Landings and all that) Hope to meet up with you all at the next BCP fly in next summer, that is if I ever get the Maule fixed enough to fly again.

Iceman,

Crookston is in Northwestern Minnesota, kinda. Just north east of Climax, and just northwest of Fertile.

Oh, yeah, and a ways west of Cumming, but that's in North Dakota..... .

MTV

geez, no wonder you fly. I bet there's nothing to do there but watch the cows move from pasture to pasture. I bought the Maule from a guy in Good THunder Minn. He had it in his barn and flew off his own strip. By the way bonanza man that one part about the seats says you can replace the seat as an owner but that doesn't mean fly it with the seat out does it.

iceman wrote: Also where is my new status Zane????

Notice that it's not "Backcountry Veteran" but rather "BCP Veteran." You're only 246 posts shy of the title, Ice....and it's a moving target

zane wrote:

iceman wrote: Also where is my new status Zane????

Notice that it's not "Backcountry Veteran" but rather "BCP Veteran." You're only 246 posts shy of the title, Ice....and it's a moving target

I said BCP Veteran. So it's the number of posts rather than time in grade huh?

Found this recently from the American Bonanza Society.



Back to News

Legal Flight with Seats Removed

posted 3/29/2007



Removing seats in Beech airplanes



A member recently called in saying he was ramp-checked and may face violation for flying an A36 Bonanza with the rear seats removed. Here are the rules for flying with seats removed:

* Seats are easily removable by the owner/pilot in most Beech airplanes.
* Seat weights are included in the Aircraft Empty Condition of the airplane’s weight and balance information, and are part of the aircraft’s Equipment List—both of which must match the current configuration for the airplane to be legally flown.
* Legal operation with one or more seats removed requires two things:
o An entry in the airframe logbook that the seats have been removed. The airplane OWNER can make this logbook entry (you must include your pilot certificate number).
o An updated Equipment List and aircraft Weight and Balance sheet showing the airplane’s new empty weight and moment. This documentation must be signed by an FAA CERTIFICATED MECHANIC.
* You can legally maintain multiple mechanic-endorsed Equipment Lists and Weight and Balance data. Refer to the set matching the current seat configuration when flying with seats installed or removed.
* Reinstalling removed seats requires another airframe logbook entry by the OWNER.
* Reversing middle-row seats in club-seating Model 36s and 58s may be done without any log entry or update to airplane documents. The Pilots Operating Handbook for these airplanes contains different seat moments for calculating weight and balance in either forward- or rear-facing configurations, and the seats remain installed for flight so there is no update to the Equipment List.

Gee, seems I heard this info somwhere before.....

He's just verifying it from another source. Makes me less doubtful when I see the same thing from different sources. Me, I'm still hung on if a pilot can remove it, why does it take an A&P to compute it. I'm still of the opinion that anything a pilot can put in or remove, he can calculate for. How else are we supposed to handle cargo and pax? I'm one of those hard headed types that likes a reference

I'm a A&P/I.A. who has a set of digital scales and program to do weight and Balance on light aircraft up to 12,000 lbs. Do helicopters, Airplanes, or whatever . Most times I will configure for customer
request several weight and balance sheets ,Back seat in or out,full fuel or empty,single seat etc. My web site has information on this, I do this service when ever >wherever (within airport hangers) see http:www.edmaircraft.com Thanks Bill Reid

I carry a three ring notebook in my plane, with a copy (in plastic sleeves) of:

1 FAA approved Aircraft Flight Manual
2 EMPTY Weight and balance for all possible configurations and conditions (I currently have six)
3 Copy of the latest airframe, engine and propeller logbook entries for annual inspection.
4 Copy of STC for extended range fuel (required for border crossings, though Ive never been asked)
5 Copies of Transponder and Pitot Static biennial checks
6 Customs decal receipt
7 Copy of latest compliance sheet for AD's
8 Copy of POH (in my case not the same as AFM)

I've been ramped a couple of times with this setup. Inspectors were always impressed, and inspection was very brief.

MTV