Interesting comments... I really like Barnstormers visual exercise, it's a good one! .... Here's one for those who would like to compare Idaho's 'real deal' to Alaska's 'easy peasy' ;

In Idaho you fly to JC on the floor of a canyon at 5000', next to 8,000' ridge lines, with a full service city what? 30 miles away...

In Alaska the neighboring ridgelines can be similar elevations.... with the floor at sea level but frequently the ridges you are shoulder to shoulder with are in the teens, sometimes the upper teens... Steep? a look at many places in the Brooks will give you a whole new definition of steep... wind and steep = bad time... hot or no hot.....
If wrecking in Idaho at noon scares you, I'd say don't even think about venturing into the Brooks range... not even at 0600....Heck, easy peasy Rainy, Lake Clark, or Merrill passes may not even be your cup of tea, and we haven't even got to a destination to land yet

Want another interesting phenomena in close proximity to big rocks? Try flying around the toe of a big glacier at mid day while that cold airmass is cascading down it. Two years ago I recall a group of lower 48 cubs playing in this on the Tana. A gorgeous Topcub learned the hard way about tailing into the wind in it. I guarantee helicoptering that cub out of there was wayy spendier than the same ride out of anywhere in the lower 48, and that barely scratches 'bush Alaska'.


This flying jazz can be as easy or as hard as we choose to make it, no matter where you do it... A guy once asked me if the Wx was quite a bit harder to fly in Alaska? I just couldn't grasp that concept? Wx? jeez... I thought Wx was a simple go or no go decision regardless of where you launched from? Yes I am sure I can make it, or no I really don't know... anything else and you're the one making it hard, not the location....

Troy, don't sell your state short... it may not be the real deal... but it's real
Kevin, interesting thought coming from an Alaskan.
EZ, you're a funny cat Don't ya know? Gliders and Tcarts are PFM... Idaho would likely suit you just fine, and prolly Alaska too.... In whatever you chose to fly... and probably whenever you chose to fly it

Take care, Rob

Oh I don't sell it short...I love it here. But in our corner and between here and Anchorage we don't see much density altitude...even summer days are not very hot. But we do have lots of terrain. And tundra. And beaches. And sand blows. Excuse me, I think I need to go fly...

As Rob suggests, everyplace is different.......but not necessarily "easier" or "harder", two VERY subjective terms.

In 1986, I moved from Kodiak (where the rocks and canyons make central Idaho look downright roomy) to Fairbanks. I'd been flying on the AK Peninsula and Kodiak for 11 years by then.

I got to FAI, and shortly thereafter, I turned down a trip north, after having a look. My passenger, a type A (for Asshole) personality, informed me in no uncertain terms that I was a wimpy pilot.....after all, everyone says that weather in Kodiak is really bad and pilots there fly in a lot of shit weather. After mentioning casually that, while Kodiak is indeed mountainous, the entire Island is surrounded by this thing called a "shoreline", which offers a handy navigation reference during periods of restricted visibility. And, having flown on Kodiak for eight years, I kind of knew the weather and passes, etc....I knew the area.

But, the interior was a whole new experience for me......90 degree temps, generic hills, and someone forgot to install one of those "shoreline" thingies.

My newfound "friend" persisted, insisting that "Joe" would have gone through that weather on that route......That's when I told him to perform an unnatural and in fact impossible act on himself.......and to have a nice day.

Unfortunately, his buddy "Joe" killed himself in an accident (weather related, and in that same region) a couple of years later.

EVERYplace has it's unique challenges to safe flying. Some are a little weirder than others.....he'll, there's no way you'd catch me trying to fly VFR into LAX.....if you're new to an area, listen to the locals, and learn from them. If they don't fly after noon much.....there's likely a good reason. These are the folks who are trying to eke out a living in this flying game.

Whee, next time you're in the neighborhood of that feller who turned down a charter for your wife, stop in and shake his hand.....he might just have saved her life.

MTV

mtv wrote:EVERYplace has it's unique challenges to safe flying. Some are a little weirder than others.....he'll, there's no way you'd catch me trying to fly VFR into LAX.....if you're new to an area, listen to the locals, and learn from them. If they don't fly after noon much.....there's likely a good reason. These are the folks who are trying to eke out a living in this flying game.

Whee, next time you're in the neighborhood of that feller who turned down a charter for your wife, stop in and shake his hand.....he might just have saved her life.

MTV

A couple of hundred years ago, I was flying 402's in the Grand Canyon. My third week there, while at GCN, the weather got un-airworthy. We all took off and I was the only plane to make it back to Vegas. All the others turned around landing back at GCN.
Sadly, this made me the point man on weather days. One morning I departed Vegas with nine souls (and me, the most important human on the plane) only to turn back at the West End due to weather. Mind you, we were supposed to be giving tours
The "hero" Ex Air Force guys flying for Las Vegas Airlines picked those poor souls up at our terminal, bussed them to VGT, loaded them up in one of their Chieftans, and took them to their deaths, due to that same lousy weather.
Ironically, the next day, I was the one to find the wreckage seventy five feet below the top of a cliff.
I've been to most places on this planet, and 99.9% of them aren't worth dying for trying to get back!
Mike's correct, go shake that guy/gal's hand!
237

was that las vegas flight 88? I remember reading the NTSB report about that during primary training. Excellent example of why good judgement trumps great skill.

SkyTruck wrote:Mike's correct, go shake that guy/gal's hand!
237

Yup... When the guys who fly an area for $$$ turn down $$$ for a flight, saying they won't do it. Probably a good idea to follow their lead.

Gump

scottf wrote:was that las vegas flight 88? I remember reading the NTSB report about that during primary training. Excellent example of why good judgement trumps great skill.

I believe that was it, it's been a while.
Not sure about the skill part, I said AirForce, not Navy

237

I worked a fire above the Stibnite mine, a few miles east of Johnson Creek, last year. We flew all day long for a week. The first fuel cycle (2 hours) 9am to 11am was pure joy to fly. The squirrelly winds would start picking up around noon. By 3 pm we were getting our a$$es kicked. We reduced our water loads by half, down to 600 gallons instead of normal 1200, and could get rid of that in 2 seconds with the punch of a button. This was in a helicopter with a max gross of 42000 lbs, I would not have wanted to be low in those canyons in a small airplane after noon.