Would anybody know what the Cessna service kit SK 180-46 is?

There is a first time fresh overhauled 88" 204 mac on barnstormers for $4500. Not sure if it would work for you. I like this topic. I would love to dump the 84lb hartzell anchor off my 180, but a few other mods are first in line. So for now I just read and dream.

What's difference between the 203 and the 204?

whee wrote:What's difference between the 203 and the 204?

As far as I can tell the only difference is that the lower blade stop is 10 on the 203 and 10.5 on the 204.
Hopefully someone can point out other differences?

Hi,I replaced an old Hartzell prop on my C182B with a C204 using an STC from North West Propellers in Wa.From memory my governor is a Woodward 210105 and all we needed was to swap a plug from one position to another, so check whether you governer can do this.

Hamish

Mudder
SK180-46 is a one page letter allowing the use of the MCCAULEY 2A34C203/90DCA-2 Two Bladed on the 180 with most of the O-470s,
including the K and landplanes

It is 70 to 80 CENTS from the Cessna parts outlets (Cessna prices, eh?)

Mather Aviation gave me a copy for my use.
I will look for it next week and try to download it. I think my IA kept my copy.

It may be in the archives here, too.

I think the dowels in the prop hub where it attaches to the engine prop flange are in a different position relative to the prop blades, effecting the relationship of the crankshaft counterweights to the prop and harmonic vibrations. The 204 is compatible with the O470U, the 203 those prior.

Tim

c180bill wrote:Mudder
SK180-46 is a one page letter allowing the use of the MCCAULEY 2A34C203/90DCA-2 Two Bladed on the 180 with most of the O-470s,
including the K and landplanes

It is 70 to 80 CENTS from the Cessna parts outlets (Cessna prices, eh?)

Mather Aviation gave me a copy for my use.
I will look for it next week and try to download it. I think my IA kept my copy.

It may be in the archives here, too.

Awesome....Thanks so much!!

bat443 wrote:I think the dowels in the prop hub where it attaches to the engine prop flange are in a different position relative to the prop blades, effecting the relationship of the crankshaft counterweights to the prop and harmonic vibrations. The 204 is compatible with the O470U, the 203 those prior.

Tim

Thank you, Sir.
I was wondering about indexing all along and this would have been my next question.

ZK Kiwi wrote:Hi,I replaced an old Hartzell prop on my C182B with a C204 using an STC from North West Propellers in Wa.From memory my governor is a Woodward 210105 and all we needed was to swap a plug from one position to another, so check whether you governer can do this.

Hamish

Thanks.
I placed a phone call to NW Propeller today in regard to the STCs they are holding and was told that I would hear back by Monday.
I'll post as soon as I know more.

Cheers

hotrod180 wrote:

Mudder wrote:....Just got off the phone with McCauley's Chris Bell and he pointed out the possible issues with the 2A34C203 88" approval for non amphibian.....

I can see ground clearance might be an issue, can you elaborate on what other issues he pointed out?

Never had any dealings with Rocky Mtn prop, but I've very pleased with the service I've gotten from Mike Worden at AC Prop in Seattle. If you end up having to do business long distance, you should give him a call.

The only thing Chris pointed out was that McCauley doesn't hold an STC for the 203 and my 180/J engine combination. Their STC is strictly Floats/Amphibs for my setup.

No STC needed with the J engine, just a simple log book entry that you modified the aircraft per the Cessna Service Kit mentioned in the Type Certificate Data sheet. I believe its item 11, under J engine.(floatplane, amphib, landplane, skiplane.)

Although you would not be using or needing a McCauley STC, the best deal to obtain the propeller is to order their STC kit for the 88" C203 prop that includes the spinner. (Basically you get the spinner for free) Don't confuse them with paperwork issues, just simply go to their application guide and figure out what you need.

There is a catch in the Type Certificate data sheets. It gives a part number for the Cessna spinner, technically the McCauley spinner is not approved. What that means in the real world is that you will see all kinds of your year model aircraft, with a long prop on it and a big long McCauley spinner, and you just smile. . It's certainly easier to install as it just sits between the hub and crank. Perhaps you can find a Cessna Spinner for a reasonable price, that is indeed a possibility.

Now for your governor. The best deal out there is the PCU 5000 PMA governor. Its reasonably priced and a very nice looking slick unit.

I would not recommend the C204 propeller. As mentioned previously, the hub is doweled differently. If you worked in a propeller repair station, you would learn that the blade itself is also doweled differently. (Different jig when measuring angles during straightening) This is done because when run in its standard configuration with the slower turning U engine, the low pitch setting is much higher than with a C201/C203 propeller. It just sets you up with unnecessary problems, such as it's own spinner requirement and the fact that if you ever want to get rid of the C204, it is much harder. In all honesty, performance wise, the 90DCB blade has the same width, thickness specs as the 90DA and 90DCA blades, I would just not go there.

I don't think you will regret going to the 88" C203. It's a very sweet propeller. it's nice to have the continuous internal lubrication with the oil-filled hub. Here at Aircraft Structural Repair we put one on the Cessna 180 conversion we just finished. (1961 182D converted to a taildragger). It looks like a 180, has the heart of a 180, and performs like a 180. The only thing different with this 180 is the structure is new and tight. It seems like my boss might have listed it on barnstormers....

I had an 82" C203 on mine, had the idea I could just have a set of 88" blades installed. Nope:
1) those blades (90DCA-2) are hard to come by, and
2) the hub was old school grease-filled, per McCauley must be converted to oil filled. Cost effectiveness means an overhaul also......in between that & the blades the total cost is about as much or maybe more than buying a new one.

I hunted for a used 88" C203 but couldn't find one, ended up buying an 88" C201 instead & having it overhauled and I sold off the 82" C203. The C201 uses 90DA-2 blades instead of the DCA's, otherwise I think they're about the same? Applicable to the same engines anyway. Not sure just what is different about the blades, I do see that the C180 TCDS specs out the pitch for both the C201 & C203 at the same station, the low pitch is 10.5 for the C201 instead of 10.0 but high pitch is the same for both at 24.5.

Just saw an 88" C201 on Barnstormers for $4500. Says it was overhauled about a year ago, seems like a good price. Listed under C180's, posted nov 19, in Ontario Canada.

Thanks to everybody for chiming in.
GREAT HELP!!

Now, since I am pretty much settled on the C203/90DCA2, what kind of performance numbers are you guys seeing on STOCK engines.
I stated some of mine earlier.
My takeoff data are pretty much the book values.

I typically cruise at around 12500ft MSL, 2200RPM and WOT (17.5" MAP). Fuel flow will be right around 10.5 to 11 gph.
with this setup I see 130KTAS (my 8.50-10 tires kill about 3-5kts).

Cheers

bat443 wrote: I think the dowels in the prop hub where it attaches to the engine prop flange are in a different position relative to the prop blades, effecting the relationship of the crankshaft counterweights to the prop and harmonic vibrations. ....

When I installed my 88" C201, I got a weird shake when slowing down in the pattern, about where I turned base when it got down to (as I recall) around 1700-1900 rpm. Per advice from Mike at AC Prop, who'd just overhauled it, I took off the prop & turned it 180 degrees and the shake went away. Doesn't make sense to me, as the blades tracked each other perfectly and everything was fresh and should have been symmetrical, but there you go-- another illustration that propellers (like many things in aviation) are a black art, not a science.

hotrod180 wrote:

bat443 wrote: I think the dowels in the prop hub where it attaches to the engine prop flange are in a different position relative to the prop blades, effecting the relationship of the crankshaft counterweights to the prop and harmonic vibrations. ....

When I installed my 88" C201, I got a weird shake when slowing down in the pattern, about where I turned base when it got down to (as I recall) around 1700-1900 rpm. Per advice from Mike at AC Prop, who'd just overhauled it, I took off the prop & turned it 180 degrees and the shake went away. Doesn't make sense to me, as the blades tracked each other perfectly and everything was fresh and should have been symmetrical, but there you go-- another illustration that propellers (like many things in aviation) are a black art, not a science.

Man, that sounds really like black art.
I could see a 30 or 60 degree change as making a difference but 180 deg.....
Then on the other side, I could see how there has to be balance in regard to crank throw.
I guess the engine would run smoothest if the prop would be aligned with #6 crankpin (Continental).....but what do I know.

richpiney wrote:

"Now for your governor. The best deal out there is the PCU 5000 PMA governor. Its reasonably priced and a very nice looking slick unit."


I like the idea.
The unit reminds me of a Jihostroj governor I installed a couple of years ago on an AEIO-540.
Anyway, any comments on the PCU5000.
Sources?

richpiney wrote:http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/pcu5000governorsmw.php

http://www.pcu5000.com/

Any chance you know the difference between a C201 and 203 Rich?

David