For years I've held off buying a portable O2 system for fear it will sit in the corner of the hangar once the novelty wears off. For those of you with O2 systems, how useful do you find them and do you use them often enough to make spending $675 (4-place 25cf SkyOx with Bag) worthwhile? I like to stay low, but living in NV I'm often at 10,000 plus to clear terrain or catch a tailwind.

AND

Just to make it more challenging, what would you spend money on first - a new IPad or an O2 system?

Do ya use O2 if you're riding four-wheelers or hiking at 10 to 12K?

I don't....

Gump

Depends on amount of time spent at those altitudes... how long are your flights? How good of shape are you in? Ever tested your brain power on regular mix air vs O2? I know guys who swear by it... or they get headaches.

I opt not to use it, but that's not for any good reason. I generally don't fly over 3000 MSL unless I'm headed to Idaho. A few years back, coming home at 8500 in my 170 with my dad, we got into an argument about wind direction and appropriate runway at a 3-runway airfield. He was really backwards, and he is a sharp guy, been flying his whole life. He also smokes and I chalked it up to a lowlander being at 8500 for 2 hours.

Then 10 minutes later I played slalom with the runway lights, but my chosen runway WAS appropriate for the wind.

I do think acclimatization plays a factor. You live in Elko at what? 4000+ MSL? 10,000 ft probably isn't going to affect you as much as me living here at 200 ft.

Exactly. In northern NV we have a base elevation of 4 to 5K. I know i can find myself at 10 to 12K for a day or two at a time if I'm out goofing off on the bikes in the high country. Never felt fuzzy, and headaches were self inflicted.

Now up higher without O's... Say a few hours at 18 without to stay out of wx... That hurts. Was sick for two days after.

Gump

You'd be smart to get the O2 system IF you plan to spend a lot of time OVER 10k, living at 4000 your better acclimated to the altitude...

On the other hand..

WebMD is a free app. It probably has a section on symptoms/treatment of hypoxia & AMS.

I've lived in high country most of my life, so I'm as acclimated as most. Fort Collins is at roughly 5000' MSL, where I've lived for 15 years; before that, I lived in Laramie for 23 years, which is at roughly 7300' MSL. Until a few years ago, I just followed the FAA rules for pilots of using O2 if I was going to be above 12,500' MSL for more than 30 minutes or over 15,000' at all. But several years ago, I bought a quality pulse-oxygen meter (it clamps onto a finger) and found that my oxygen percentage at anything above 10,000' was less than 90%. With just a little research I found that aging makes it harder for the body to use the oxygen which is available in the ambient air, so that while I was probably safe as a younger pilot to follow the FAA oxygen rules, but as an older pilot (I'm 67) I must use O2 at a much lower altitude. Consequently I now use O2 any time I'm going to fly at or above 10,000' for any length of time. I also set the meter as if I'm flying higher than I am, so that I can keep my O2 percentage at or above 90%.

Oxygen sets don't wear out (they do need to be hydro-tested periodically), and unless you need the extra 6 or 8#, leaving it strapped to the back of the passenger seat is certainly no handicap, so it's available whenever needed. Buy it once, and you'll be able to use it for many, many years. I used mine this past weekend to attend a Colorado Pilots Association fly-in/camp out at Marble, CO, because it's very difficult for me to fly there from Fort Collins without getting to at least 12,000' MSL. Coming home, I had to dodge a storm which meant going over a higher pass, safely at 14,500'. I don't particularly enjoy using oxygen--it dries out my nose, and the oxymizer cannula gets in the way of drinking a Coke, but the alternatives of fuzzy thinking, headaches, and fatigue aren't very desirable.

Hiking and 4-wheeling doesn't require much thinking or reasoning capability; piloting does. So no, it's not an ornament for the hangar. It's a very useful, almost necessary addition to your flight stuff, if you're going into the high country at all.

Cary

If/when your young, hale, and hearty.....with a set of lungs like a race horse, 16K isn't a real stretch....
If you are toward the other end of the health spectrum somewhere, (like Zane alluded to) driving over a 4k foot pass can be uncomfortable.
One of the 'assists' that can be used for short times at a challenging altitude (for you/whoever) is to pressure breathing. This is used by hikers in the mtns to keep their O2 levels up. This consists of deep inhaling and exhaling under pressure (through the lips). This can effectively 'lower your altitude'.......some (I'm not going to guess numbers here!).... significantly.
Watch your/your passenger's nail beds for a slight color shift. By the time you can see that it is definitely time to descend-NOW

lc

Black Rock,
The iPad is great for the cockpit, but you need a functional brain in order to use that iPad. I'd suggest you run a small experiment. Get a inexpensive pulse oxymeter and see what your blood O2 saturation is at the altitudes you intend to fly (they sell them on Amazn or drug store). I keep one in my AC to regulate the amount of O2 I give myself. If you are below 90% saturation at the altitudes you fly, then you need O2.

I live at 7,000', regularly exercise above 9,000' so always assumed I would have no altitude issues in the low to mid teens, well I was wrong. At 12,500' my O2 saturation level was 85%. I felt fine, but then experimented and tried to do some basic math while in the cockpit and at 85%. It was scary because it took me way more concentration, and it already takes a LOT . Well that ain't a good thing when your brain is in charge of the flying duties, so now I wear O2 anytime I'm over 11,5' for more than a short time. You're not the same pilot when flying around with blood O2 sats Below 90%. The added bonus is that I also feel much better after a high flight if Ive been wearing O2 vs without.

The other variable that nobody has noted is individual variation. We generally do an altitude chamber ride with 6 to 8 students each school year. Taken up to 20 K, with O2 masks on, one at a time they are told to remove the mask, and are given simple tasks. Almost everyone FEELS just fine at that altitude. Some folks actually DO reasonably well on the functional testing (counting backward, color vision, basic math, etc). Then, they put their O2 mask back on and try it again. Generally a big difference.

Hypoxia is a very sneaky condition. Since you are impaired, it's next to impossible to judge your own impairment, but when you sit there breathing oxygen and watch someone else stumbling around, all the while THEY think they're doing fine..... Then they get to review the video.

BUT, again, some folks tolerate it much better than others. I have a friend in his late 70s who is amazingly tolerant of high altitudes with out oxygen. That doesn't mean the rest of us are.

If there's anywhere around where you are that you can experience hypoxia in a controlled environment, give it a whirl...I think you'll be impressed.

And, remember..you don't have to be drooling in your microphone for hypoxia to kill you in the mountains.....you're making decisions all the time up there, and one wrong decision.....

MTV

I KNEW there was a reason why I like flying low....

....other variable that nobody has noted is individual variation.

I know individual variation in biological organisms/systems is huge. I made that point on the metabolism (fat) discussion. I hope it was in the back of my mind somewhere on O2 usage/metabolism........ but I have to admit it wasn't 'up front' yet......

Good point, Mike.

courierguy wrote:I KNEW there was a reason why I like flying low....

X2!!

But, when I was flying the most, it was about 98% local and in the mountains, canyons, and desert of SW Idaho, eastern OR, and northern NV. If there was a big azz mountain in my way, I'd just fly around it.

I've always wondered if I was going to do more regular runs down to SoCal from Boise, having O2 might be good to have handy in-case you want to get up high, or around Wx. Or to breath clean air when you get south of Edwards AFB

Going around works if you are going N/S and the mountains run that way, too....(like most in NV)... Going around is more of a challenge in a small SLOW plane if you are flying perpendicular to the mtn range.....
I agree, low is good.
Slow is not always good

lc

Littlecub wrote:Going around works if you are going N/S and the mountains run that way, too....(like most in NV)... Going around is more of a challenge in a small SLOW plane if you are flying perpendicular to the mtn range.....
I agree, low is good.
Slow is not always good

lc

Very good point.

What works for me, may not work for you

What works for me, may not work for you.

AND.....

What works for one trip may not work for another......

lc

There is the classic demo using oxygen at night. Fly above 8000 and look at a distant city's light glow. Take a few breaths on O2 and watch the lights go up just like you turned the dimmer up full bright. It is quite apparent at fairly low flying altitudes.
You might save money on a two place system. The pax will just get sleepy or take a Tylenol later.
Front left seat needs to be operating on max performance.

In my early years of flying I've suffered from hypoxia a couple times (think I'm still suffering ). Started flying gliders in the mid 90's and went thru the high altitude chamber ride (and class) at Edwards a couple times, quite an experience and education. I use a Mountain High rig in the glider a single place unit and a 2 place unit in the 180. http://www.mhoxygen.com/ they are very efficient, your O2 goes probably 2x-3x as far or you can carry a lighter smaller bottle with these units. There's no screwing around with the "flow meter" because it does it all automatically (internally). It only pulses when you inhale, not a constant flow. I'm guessing at least 90% of all gliders use this unit.

3/4ths of my 1100 hrs glider has been spent between 10k' and 17999' so O2 is a must. Most all of my powered flight is spent below 11k' and I haven't felt it necessary to supplement. A cannula in a glider is no problem, in a power plane with a headset on is a pita.

The big drawback with O2 is finding a place to fill your bottle. I've bought 3 250 cu' bottles and fill my own (ABO) and it costs about $25 to fill my big bottles at my supplier. You go to a FBO and have them fill your little 22 cu' bottle and you'll pay upwards of $40-$50.

Hypoxia can be a killer. If you suffer from it easily you should supplement or fly lower, if you can, invest.

ABO stands for Aviators breathable oxygen, it's all O2, welding, medical & ABO. ABO has less than 5PPM water or moisture in it, that's the only difference. It all comes out of the same source, I buy mine at a welding supply and put it in dedicated bottles and they fill and test moisture content as the fill, if it doesn't spec right they dump it and fill it again until it does.

Littlecub wrote:

What works for me, may not work for you.

AND.....

What works for one trip may not work for another......

lc

Yep, that too!

flightlogic wrote:There is the classic demo using oxygen at night. Fly above 8000 and look at a distant city's light glow. Take a few breaths on O2 and watch the lights go up just like you turned the dimmer up full bright. It is quite apparent at fairly low flying altitudes.
You might save money on a two place system. The pax will just get sleepy or take a Tylenol later.
Front left seat needs to be operating on max performance.

In the chamber ride they do something similar, they depressurize to 18k', give you a color chart, dim the lights, take off the O2. After about 2 minutes you breath O2 and the color Jumps out of the color chart, it's unbelievable

flightlogic wrote:
Front left seat needs to be operating on max performance.

The man is correct. That is the key factor IMHO. Most of us here on this forum are not 18 or 25 years old any more. As mentioned, you cannot trust your own judgment at altitude to determine whether your judgment at altitude has started to go away.

In a previous life I flew quite a bit at 17,999 feet like Glidergeek. Young, indestructible, and far too handsome to deal with trivialities like pilot judgment, I never even thought of using Oxygen until I would start getting towards 15,000 feet. But them days (like my good looks and hairline and zero modulus of elasticity in the bedroom) are gone.

I'd stack the odds in my favor any time I can nowdays. Would any of you walk into South Central Los Angeles after dark unarmed today, because you were bad-ass enough to do it 30 years ago?

My threshold will be a little higher than some because I don't smoke and there ain't no smack, crack, crank or kush, but nearing 50 it's still lower than it was when I was 25.