It's pretty hard to beat a C172 for a "can do it all pretty good and not cost too much" airplane. There's some really good deals on early straight-tail models-- don't be afraid of the Continental engine, it's different from a Lycoming but is smoother and has some other good points.

I'm curious what you used for he "radio navigation" portion of the private pilot program with no VOR-- GPS? It seems to me that VOR's are rapidly becoming extinct for VFR flying, if they're not already, but are still a big part of getting your private.

Congrats! Toss the spread sheet out - all that info gets confusing. Figure out about what it will cost you, double that number, then add another 80% to that. Understand that you really can't afford it and buy one anyway.

If you are young and not tied down, find a pipeline or powerline patrol pilot who comes through your area. Most will come in low and circle while giving way to other aircraft. Most are in Cessnas. They are alone, bored, and underpaid. I gave thousands of hours of free instruction in pipeline airplanes. Patrol companies bid low to get loops, hire old mostly retired pilots, don't have observers, don't allow passengers other than oil company employees, and look the other way rather than lose a really experienced old guy like myself.

Free rides have to be able to stay out a week. Most loops are 2500 to 3500 miles or three or four days, but easily can take a week with bad weather.

E-mail me at [email protected]. I will attach "Safe Maneuvering Flight Techniques." It has a chapter on pipeline patrol and an Ag pilot syllabus.

hotrod180 wrote:It's pretty hard to beat a C172 for a "can do it all pretty good and not cost too much" airplane. There's some really good deals on early straight-tail models-- don't be afraid of the Continental engine, it's different from a Lycoming but is smoother and has some other good points.

I'm curious what you used for he "radio navigation" portion of the private pilot program with no VOR-- GPS? It seems to me that VOR's are rapidly becoming extinct for VFR flying, if they're not already, but are still a big part of getting your private.

Yes; I'm beginning to see the 172 as a decent "first" airplane. I'm not set on that decision just yet...but certainly leaning that way.

The airplane I was in had an ADF. All of my "radio navigation" flying had been done with VOR...and I felt very comfortable operating and explaining that system. Unfortunately I only had a very quick "primer" on ADF and wasn't very familiar with its operation, but my checkride examiner quizzed me on VOR, seemed satisfied that I knew how to use it, and then gave me a quick lesson on ADF and had me navigate to an ADF beacon. Not difficult...but it would have been nice to practice using ADF before trying to demonstrate it during a checkride!

Lots of good airplanes. 172 is also a good one, with the added bonus of being more affordable.

Herzlichen Glückwunsch! You're already starting a step further than those of us that learned on long runways.

The problem with learning on long runways is that it makes the stabilized 1.3 Vso approach with the round out, hold off for a long way down the runway, and flair approach look like a winner. Also, looking at the airspeed indicator makes it an instrument approach. Not the best in a truely contact world.

What is an ADF or VOR. I am confused.

They are fine instruments that have made blind navigation much easier and safer, in their time. Have they improved situational awareness in contact work? No! Like the calculator, which had caused a great decline in the number of young people who know their multiplication tables and how to make change, they have decreased important visual reconnaissance and pilotage skills. Fewer pilots, fewer hours flown by each pilot, and more mid-air collisions.

My son, a lifetime computer technician and intel guy, believes there will be far fewer accidents when insurance companies make it too expensive to insure a car without an artificial intelligence autopilot. He doesn't even try to go after milk at the local market without GPS. I think it will make life easier. I don't think it will make us more proficient.

sewerzuk wrote:Passed my checkride on Tuesday this week, so I now officially have my PPL!

It wasn't my best flight ever...the weather was poor and I was in a 152 without a working VOR so I had to rely heavily on dead reckoning and my knowledge of the northwest. After a particularly ugly approach into KSPB I told my checkride examiner that I was going to climb and circle back around before entering the pattern just to give me a chance to calm my nerves. But, when it was all over he said that I did just fine and I left with a "pass."

I'm excited to get out there and see more of the PNW from the air!

IMHO, start working on your tail-wheel endorsement.

Coyote wrote:What is an ADF or VOR. I am confused.

I assumed these were commonly used in general aviation; during my flight instruction my instructors promoted the use of the VOR to help with navigation.
Both systems basically "point" to a radio beacon at a known location. With a bit of math and a sectional chart a person can use a couple of them to pinpoint his location.
Before my first flight I had installed the Avare app on my phone and pre-cached several sectionals. I wanted some kind of a backup to everything else; if I managed to somehow get myself truly lost, I wanted to be able to pull up the app and have it help me regain my bearings. I haven't needed it yet, but I've found that it is reassuring to pull up during a flight to make sure I haven't made some kind of navigational error. My prog check examiners and FAA examiner all told me they didn't want me to use it during the tests. But, I believe that it will be a useful tool during future flights.

ADF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_dir ... _.28ADF.29

VOR:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHF_omnidirectional_range

contactflying wrote:If you are young and not tied down, find a pipeline or powerline patrol pilot who comes through your area. Most will come in low and circle while giving way to other aircraft. Most are in Cessnas. They are alone, bored, and underpaid. I gave thousands of hours of free instruction in pipeline airplanes. Patrol companies bid low to get loops, hire old mostly retired pilots, don't have observers, don't allow passengers other than oil company employees, and look the other way rather than lose a really experienced old guy like myself.

Free rides have to be able to stay out a week. Most loops are 2500 to 3500 miles or three or four days, but easily can take a week with bad weather.

Interesting!
I am pretty "tied down" here; I own my own construction business, am the assistant chief on my local fire department, and have a family. But, a trip like that sounds like it could be fun and educational. I might be interested in setting aside a week for an extended ride-along.

Sewerzuk, congrats on the PPL. Now you have to understand there are a lot of jokers on this site and you can include me as one of them. I know what an ADF and VOR are but as a VFR only pilot I don't use them. My comment was a lot of tongue in cheek. It appears ADFs are ancient history and the VOR is on its way. After flying awhile I am starting to find my GPS not nearly as useful. If my destination is within a 400 mile radius I now just hop in the plane and go in the direction I think is right and most of the time I am pretty close. Went to Oshkosh once an 800 mile journey. Took off with no flight planning (except the weather) as I knew I would have hours to figure it out and I knew most of the country in a 400 mile radius. Started out on a heading of 090 and sure enough I was dead on. Finding fuel required technology though, but the charts would have worked too. Hopefully you will continue flying enough that you will know where you are in the neighborhood and your hood will get larger and larger as time goes on. One thing I did after getting my PPL was to land every public use airport in Montana. It taught me a lot about flying and my hood got bigger and bigger. When I first starting flying I could be 20 miles from my airport and not find it. Have fun.

sewerzuk wrote:

Coyote wrote:What is an ADF or VOR. I am confused.

ADF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_dir ... _.28ADF.29

VOR:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHF_omnidirectional_range

This was a joke. I actually laughed out loud...

Just follow the magenta line grasshopper. ADF has gone west....

Congratulations! Way to go!

Congratulations, for sure.

If you end up with a 172, don't sweat not having a hangar too much. Yep, good to get into one but you can keep the 172 parked outside in the meantime.

Do what you can to talk to and make friends with as many pilots and airport managers between seaside and HIO as you can. HIO seems like it would be spendier than other places you might be able to find.

More probability of corrosion on the coast but the farther the plane is away, the less you'll be able to fly. Mine is almost an hour away and it's kind of a pain.

I also wouldn't discount a rental hangar if one is available. Gives you a nice dry place to park while searching for one that is for sale.

Happy flying and hope to meet up with you sometime.

Craig

Coyote wrote:Sewerzuk, congrats on the PPL. Now you have to understand there are a lot of jokers on this site and you can include me as one of them. I know what an ADF and VOR are but as a VFR only pilot I don't use them. My comment was a lot of tongue in cheek. It appears ADFs are ancient history and the VOR is on its way. After flying awhile I am starting to find my GPS not nearly as useful. If my destination is within a 400 mile radius I now just hop in the plane and go in the direction I think is right and most of the time I am pretty close. Went to Oshkosh once an 800 mile journey. Took off with no flight planning (except the weather) as I knew I would have hours to figure it out and I knew most of the country in a 400 mile radius. Started out on a heading of 090 and sure enough I was dead on. Finding fuel required technology though, but the charts would have worked too. Hopefully you will continue flying enough that you will know where you are in the neighborhood and your hood will get larger and larger as time goes on. One thing I did after getting my PPL was to land every public use airport in Montana. It taught me a lot about flying and my hood got bigger and bigger. When I first starting flying I could be 20 miles from my airport and not find it. Have fun.

OK; I'll confess to hook, but not line and sinker!
I initially wrote a "you're kidding, right?" response. Then when I read it, I imagined some grizzly old crop duster pilot with about 10,000 hours in the air who, by some chance, may not know what an ADF or VOR is or have looked at a sectional chart in 20 years whose response might be something like, "young know-it-all guy who just got his ticket thinks's he's hot sh**!" Then I'd be that guy who managed to piss off senior pilots on his 8th post. I guess I'm not experienced enough to automatically identify a VOR joke

sewerzuk wrote:I guess I'm not experienced enough to automatically identify a VOR joke

Don't worry, we all started that way. Like the rest of us, you'll start figure out VOR jokes right away after your first 10 hours post-checkride, without even having to check for the morse code.

GroundLooper wrote:Congratulations, for sure.

If you end up with a 172, don't sweat not having a hangar too much. Yep, good to get into one but you can keep the 172 parked outside in the meantime.

Do what you can to talk to and make friends with as many pilots and airport managers between seaside and HIO as you can. HIO seems like it would be spendier than other places you might be able to find.

More probability of corrosion on the coast but the farther the plane is away, the less you'll be able to fly. Mine is almost an hour away and it's kind of a pain.

I also wouldn't discount a rental hangar if one is available. Gives you a nice dry place to park while searching for one that is for sale.

Happy flying and hope to meet up with you sometime.

Craig

I have given considerable thought to where I want to store an airplane; the topic still isn't decided, but I'm leaning further away from Seaside every time I think about it. The salty air is one consideration, but a bigger one is weather. There are SO many days when the coast is completely socked in by early afternoon while the entire rest of the state is sunny and clear. I planned several XC flights to the coast during my training and never did make it there. I imagine the scenario where I leave in the morning and can't make it back to Seaside in the afternoon because of visibility, have to land at HIO, and ask somebody for a ride, pay to leave the airplane there overnight, get a ride back there, try to find an opening in the clouds, etc. Or, having time to fly after work in the evening but not being able to leave because of fog.
HIO is a little over an hour away from my house; it seems like a long drive, but I have been doing it several days each week for the last 4 years for my son's soccer (and all of last summer for my PPL) and the drive just doesn't seem too bad anymore. HIO is the closest non-coastal alternative; others are even further.

Highway routing might make it not so, but Scappoose & Kelso look just as close to Seaside as Hillsboro. I hear there's a pretty active EAA chapter based at Kelso.

Sounds like your CFI fell down on the job a bit not getting you more up to speed on ADF navigation before your checkride. It's funny and kind of sad that your examiner(s) didn't want you using your GPS app, it's way more useful than VOR or ADF. Esp ADF-- I guess pure ADF nav was do-able in the midwest, but when I learned to fly in the mid-1990's other than initial IFR fixes it was only good for listening to the ball game in western Washington. And lots of NDB's have been shut down since then.