z3skybolt wrote:If you land....

....on a private strip without first asking permission you are trespassing and abusing a potential priviledge. Pure and simple. IMHO doing such is no different than camping on my property, taking veggies out of my garden, moving into my hangar or sleeping in my guest house unbeknownst to me.

Geez folks. How about respecting private property and showing basic courtesy?

bob

Landing on a private strip without first asking permission is not necessarily trespassing. Trespassing is a crime, the definition of which varies from state to state. For instance, in Idaho, for trespass to occur, one must go upon the land without permission, AND the land must be fenced or the boundary posted at least every 660 feet with "no trespassing signs".

But I absolutely agree with you in principle. Everyone should respect private property, show basic courtesy, and get permission.

OregonMaule wrote:All right, one of the three owners I ask yesterday called back and said yes. He also said he liked the release and is going to use it for others.

Good day

Thanks for planting that in his head, Rob. There wasn't enough bureaucracy and paperwork in the world. There is now one less airstrip in the world for me, because I would never sign away my rights like that. May I presume that you will require a signed release from everyone that comes to visit you that wants to drive into your driveway, or do you think that would be A DUMB IDEA?

Definition of private. I like 1b and 3.

Is it not a bitch that words mean things. You do not need to put an R or an X on a private strip cus by golly, they are private.


pri·vate (prvt)
adj.
1.
a. Secluded from the sight, presence, or intrusion of others: a private hideaway.
b. Designed or intended for one's exclusive use: a private room.2.
a. Of or confined to the individual; personal: a private joke; private opinions.
b. Undertaken on an individual basis: private studies; private research.
c. Of, relating to, or receiving special hospital services and privileges: a private patient.
3. Not available for public use, control, or participation: a private club; a private party.4.
a. Belonging to a particular person or persons, as opposed to the public or the government: private property.
b. Of, relating to, or derived from nongovernment sources: private funding.
c. Conducted and supported primarily by individuals or groups not affiliated with governmental agencies or corporations: a private college; a private sanatorium.
d. Enrolled in or attending a private school: a private student.
5. Not holding an official or public position: a private citizen.
6.
a. Not for public knowledge or disclosure; secret: private papers; a private communication.
b. Not appropriate for use or display in public; intimate: private behavior; a private tragedy.
c. Placing a high value on personal privacy: a private person.
n.
1.
a. Abbr. PVT or Pvt or Pvt. A noncommissioned rank in the U.S. Army or Marine Corps that is below private first class.
b. One who holds this rank or a similar rank in a military organization

Now if you ask permission to use somthing private and get it or you are asked to join in then that is different.

Tim

mistake

1)So I drive my truck on private property and walk up to the house and ask to use the airstrip.

2)I land my airplane on the airstrip and walk up to the house and ask to use the airstrip.

I don't see much difference. One way I arrive by truck the other way by plane. Either way I came on to private property to ask for permission to use their private property.

Good day

Continuing the discussion - I live on a pvt airstrip. The airstrip is an easement shared by several different property owners. We have a general consensus that a) you only invite people to land here that you feel pretty confident in their ability, and b) we do have a waiver quite similar to what Rob has produced that we ask pilots to sign. How it would hold up in court or if it would hold up in court is debatable and continues to be debated even amongst the property owners. However, it is a starting point. If you don't sign you don't get to come back (at least by air). We're pretty friendly to our brother and sister pilots and only ask that you fly safe, be careful and sign the release. We don't make you sign before you land but generally it only polite to have permission from one of the property owners before you do land.

OregonMaule wrote:1)So I drive my truck on private property and walk up to the house and ask to use the airstrip.

2)I land my airplane on the airstrip and walk up to the house and ask to use the airstrip.

I don't see much difference. One way I arrive by truck the other way by plane. Either way I came on to private property to ask for permission to use their private property.

Good day

Not really. You land a aircraft (something that draws a whole lot of good or bad attention from any around this poor guys strip), then proceed to walk up to my front door, knock, and ask me if you can land there, as your aircraft you just landed is sitting right behind you? Sounds like a great way to loose some teeth to me

And if this intruders flying skills are as poor as his social skills and he biffs it, now I (the landowner) have to deal with calling the medics and having that whole three ring circus show up to fix YOUR mess, having my kids see your dead ass hanging in the plane and all on MY property, in what F'ed up world does that seem right??

Here is how I approach it, I try to look the property up and get a phone number, if that fails I send a LETTER, or one of my favorites is call the local cop shop, most of these remote areas everyone knows everyone and can put you in contact.

The little gold nugget of info here is DONT COME ONTO PRIVATE PROPERTY without PRIOR permission.

93K no need to get you panties in a bunch. This is just a conversasion. I am doing my best to get this right. My flying skills are better than my social skills by the way.

If another pilot says oh it's ok to land there us that good enough?

I have landed a hole bunch of strips marked (Pvt) R in a circle on the sectional. I never ask the owner, called or wrote a letter. You may have heard of some of these places.

Happy Canyon, Ut
Hubbard,Ut
Mineral Canyon, Ut
Lower Loon, Id
Flying B, Id
Wilson Bar, Id
Macay Bar, Id
Sulphur Creek, Id

If a strip is marked (Pvt) on the sectional but no R in a circle does that mean they are open to the public?

Just asking.

Good day

OregonMaule wrote:93K no need to get you panties in a bunch. This is just a conversasion. I am doing my best to get this right. My flying skills are better than my social skills by the way.

If another pilot says oh it's ok to land there us that good enough?

I have landed a hole bunch of strips marked (Pvt) R in a circle on the sectional. I never ask the owner, called or wrote a letter. You may have heard of some of these places.

Happy Canyon, Ut
Hubbard,Ut
Mineral Canyon, Ut
Lower Loon, Id
Flying B, Id
Wilson Bar, Id
Macay Bar, Id
Sulphur Creek, Id

If a strip is marked (Pvt) on the sectional but no R in a circle does that mean they are open to the public?

Just asking.

Good day

lol dont mean to bit your head off, I've had more then a few people trespass at my place and it drive me up the wall. My thought, even if it doesnt have the R I would err on the side of caution, after all it very well could be someones home.

OregonMaule wrote:1)So I drive my truck on private property and walk up to the house and ask to use the airstrip.

2)I land my airplane on the airstrip and walk up to the house and ask to use the airstrip.

I don't see much difference. One way I arrive by truck the other way by plane. Either way I came on to private property to ask for permission to use their private property.
Good day

Here is a private strip near me. Check out the info on AirNav
http://www.airnav.com/airport/CA10

It does not say, prior permision required, but it does give a contact person and address. No one has landed on it in about five years and the brush is about 18 inches high.

I hve landed on several private strips but in all cases I have gotten permission before hand. Most of the time using Air Nav info. I sugest you use the same. It works. Driving up and being a bit more personal will probably get you on more strips cus face to face is always better.

Tim

qmdv wrote:

OregonMaule wrote:1)So I drive my truck on private property and walk up to the house and ask to use the airstrip.

2)I land my airplane on the airstrip and walk up to the house and ask to use the airstrip.

I don't see much difference. One way I arrive by truck the other way by plane. Either way I came on to private property to ask for permission to use their private property.
Good day

Here is a private strip near me. Check out the info on AirNav
http://www.airnav.com/airport/CA10

It does not say, prior permision required, but it does give a contact person and address. No one has landed on it in about five years and the brush is about 18 inches high.

I hve landed on several private strips but in all cases I have gotten permission before hand. Most of the time using Air Nav info. I sugest you use the same. It works. Driving up and being a bit more personal will probably get you on more strips cus face to face is always better.

Tim

I'm with you Tim on AirNav. Great resource. I have used it several times as you discribe. 93k I here ya. I have land to and it sucks when someone comes on the land and makes a mess. We have quad problems at our central Oregon property. In 1968 we had 4 hippies come on our property where we live. My Dad told them they were on private land. The hippies said the land was for everybody. They were eating and drinking. My Dad told them he had just spraied weed killer and it was bad stuff. They left, not a shot fired.

Good day

kevbert wrote:

OregonMaule wrote:All right, one of the three owners I ask yesterday called back and said yes. He also said he liked the release and is going to use it for others.

Good day

Thanks for planting that in his head, Rob. There wasn't enough bureaucracy and paperwork in the world. There is now one less airstrip in the world for me, because I would never sign away my rights like that. May I presume that you will require a signed release from everyone that comes to visit you that wants to drive into your driveway, or do you think that would be A DUMB IDEA?

I only offer the release as a way to hopefully reassure the owner I mean no harm. I don't ask for a release on my property. I may start with you though.

Good day

Sweet, just got a call from the owner of one of the strips I stopped by last week. He is a rich guy from California. Has a Cessna 180 This property probably cost over 2 million.

He is going to raise organic produce to sell to his restaurant friends. He is also going to sell his organic produce to pilots who fly in. Sorta like the $100.00 organic carrot stop.

I also got permission from a second owner too. Things are looking good. Now 2 for 3.

Find your state here.
http://theraf.org/sites/default/files/r ... ussion.pdf

Recreational Use Statutes
All states in the USA have recreational use statutes that immunize landowners from liability when they allow the public to enter their land for recreational activities. Few states, however, expressly set forth airstrips and associated aircraft operations as a form of recreational activity. While the laws are similar in many respects, states differ in terms of the type of land protected, whether the land needs to be suitable for recreation, and the types of individuals and organizations that may qualify as landowners. States also vary with regard to the recreational activities covered and whether landowners need to give permission for the public to engage in those activities in order to receive protection. If landowners impose charges on the users, the laws may no longer protect the owners. Questions arise over the duty of care and whether the owner acted willfully or maliciously in endangering users. The variety of questions raised indicates that pilots and airstrip owners in the various states would benefit from a thorough review and possible revision of their recreational use statutes to ascertain if aviation activities are specifically included within the provisions of their states’ recreational use statute.

What is a Recreational Use Statute?
"Recreational Use Statute" is a term given to legislation generally intended to promote public recreational use of privately owned land. The statute does this by granting landowners some protection from liability for personal injuries or property damage suffered by land users pursuing recreational activities on the owner's land. The underlying policy of a Recreational Use Statute is that the public's need for recreational land has outpaced the ability of local, state, and federal governments to provide such areas and that owners of large acreages of land should be encouraged to help meet this need. Changes in lifestyle and the environment during the last few decades further support this rationale. These changes include increases in the material wealth and leisure time of urban residents enabling them to spend more time on recreation, a decline in the amount of public recreational space available to urban residents, an increased awareness of the health and fitness benefits of recreation, a desire to provide the public with opportunities to enjoy the benefits of modern environmental control, and a response to increased private tort litigation of recreational accidents.

How does a Recreational Use Statute work?
Generally speaking, a Recreational Use Statute (R.U.S.) provides that a landowner owes, to one using his of her property for recreational purposes and without charge, neither a duty of care to keep the property safe for entry or use, nor a duty to give any warning of a dangerous condition, use, structure, or activity on the property. Under prior common law (law made by court rulings), the landowner had different duties of care depending on whether a person was on the land as an invitee, licensee, or a trespasser. The greatest duty of care was owed to an invitee and no duty was owed to an unknown, adult trespasser. Under an R.U.S., recreational users are treated in the same manner as trespassers and thus the landowner owes them no duty of care. The protection of the statute is lost, however, if the landowner charges for the use of the land or if the landowner is guilty of malicious conduct.

OREGON
O.R.S. § 105.682
§ 105.682. Limitation on liability of owner of land used by public for in certain cases
(1) Except as provided by subsection (2) of this section, and subject to the provisions of ORS 105.688, an owner of land is not liable in contract or tort for any personal injury, death or property damage that arises out of the use of the land for recreational purposes, woodcutting or the harvest of special forest products when the owner of land either directly or indirectly permits any person to use the land for recreational purposes, woodcutting or the harvest of special forest products. The limitation on liability provided by this section applies if the principal purpose for entry upon the land is for recreational purposes, woodcutting or the harvest of special forest products, and is not affected if the injury, death or damage occurs while the person entering land is engaging in activities other than the use of the land for recreational purposes, woodcutting or the harvest of special forest products.

Nice work, Rob. This probably means that the people who want visitors are saying yes, and the people who truly want to be left alone are saying no. Either way you have the feather in your cap of having been respectful.