Also posted this at CPA, but I know here there are many guys with lots of knowledge.

Cessna 182 Sportsman STOL, and VGs
Sea level 1,100ft grass field
No wind
Temp high 70's
Pilot 470hrs

Wanna go to a friend's short grass strip, 1,100ft with trees on both sides.
Not high , but trees ( 7 to 8ft).

Coming in light and with weight in the cargo area I have noticed makes a big difference.

When I go to short strips I try to be half fuel and I add 50 pounds to the most aft part of the cargo area.
I can do approaches at 50MPH IAS, in these conditions(no wind)

Usually go just by myself.
How much more weight can I add to the cargo area so it still works to my advantage and not risking weight and balance of the plane, also still have good stable handling of the plane and not a dangerous one?

Usually the short field I go to, I stop in about 600ft, 500 in a good day, 700 in a bad day. Take off about 700ft.
But I want to have the most advantage and have noticed weight in the cargo area makes big difference.
There is a placard that says no more than 80 pounds behind aft of the door lock and the rest 120 pounds.

Yes I know the pilot is the most important piece of the mission,and probably many here can put a stock 182 in that field with no mods.But I doubt any of these pilots are less than 500hrs, so I always want to get all the advantage I can.

I think putting 200 pounds and with just me in the front might be a little excessive.
How much weight in the rear might be a good number?

Any other advice to prep the plane are welcomed.

I'm two thirds through Contact Flying by Jim Dulin and I expect to have so much fun when I next go out. I ordered through Amazon before I saw the hint to go through barnstormers and get an autographed copy.

Yes: plane, plane loading, and weather can be optimized for the strip; but maybe what will give you the most satisfaction is to optimize what you have the most control over: you and the procedures you use.

rjb wrote:Yes: plane, plane loading, and weather can be optimized for the strip; but maybe what will give you the most satisfaction is to optimize what you have the most control over: you and the procedures you use.

Kind of along the same lines- can you find a long rwy with similar elevation, wind, temp etc, and determine those answers for your own self, in your own plane?

Before you load up the Baggage compartment all the way you need to do a Weight and Balance. If you can get right in the middle of your envelope, I think the plane will be able to do anything it is designed to do. You don't want to be operating at stall speeds close to the ground if your weight is too far back.

I fly a stock 1959 Cessna 182, no mods, and I fly into a lot of backcountry short strips. I think the book says 120 lbs. [b]in the baggage compartment. I have some videos you might like to look at if you haven't of some of the places I fly.
[/b]

Rather than load up with weight in the baggage area, first do a weight and balance, and then consider putting a small amount of weight all the way back in the tail cone. My old 58 C182 was very light in the tail after I removed the rear seats, and moved the battery to the firewall. So while I eliminated a lot of weight from the rear of the airplane, I was able to make up for this by permanently installing lessor amounts of lead weight way back in the tail cone.

With this modification, I never had problems landing on my mains and holding the nose off.

At any rate, the 182 can handle your runway with ease, but it certainly feels better to keep the weight down.

motoadve wrote:Cessna 182 Sportsman STOL, and VGs
Sea level 1,100ft grass field
No wind
Temp high 70's
Pilot 470hrs
1,100ft with trees on both sides.

Yes I know the pilot is the most important piece of the mission,and probably many here can put a stock 182 in that field with no mods.But I doubt any of these pilots are less than 500hrs, so I always want to get all the advantage I can.

I don't want to come across as an old veteran with 50 years of flying in the bush (or a young know it all), because I'm not. I'm 33, been flying for 5 years, have about 400 hours in the same make and model, and fly into the same kind of strips regularly. Just offering my opinion.

I have to say that the plane is very capable regardless of how its loaded if you are going to be the only one aboard. I take my 182 with no STOL mods into short (+/-1000ft) places with lots of fuel and no pre-calculated load in the extended baggage compartment. Sure, it probably would help if I was trying to milk out every ounce of performance, but with 1100 feet at sea level, I don't think its necessary. Therefore, I fully agree with what rjb has offered....

rjb wrote: optimize what you have the most control over: you and the procedures you use.

I also don't see the total PIC time as an indicator of short field capabilities. Someone with tons of total time may have never been into something unpaved and shorter than 3000 ft. However, others with less total time may have learned at and have most or all of their time out of a short field. I was flying off of a 2000' dirt road strip with less than 75 hrs under my belt...because that's where my hangar was. So what I'm getting at, no matter how many hours you have, whenever you are comfortable with and proficient with a short field is what counts. I think you will know when that is....you won't feel the need to ask what you should do, you will already know and just do it. Until then, by all means ask. (you'll get screwed up answers like this )

Good luck and have fun with that 182. Its a great plane.

assuming your 182 has a 470, i would lose more weight first. no back seat, no extra wt in the cargo. i like 40 gal fuel max for short stuff. 20 deg flap takeoff, should be off in about 5-600 ea time as noted conditions. seems like a 182 climbs out best at a 14 deg flap setting after you are off. good bird those old 182's. should u wreck one, lots around u to take the abuse as well...good luck!

I hate internet flight lessons but I'll offer some advice. If you have any question about the ability of a healthy 182 to operate in and out of 1100' with very low obstructions? Get with a good instructor and go back to exploring your airplane. Use ballast to represent your normal operating weight. Ask him to help you become proficient in short field ops to the commercial pilot standard. That in itself will raise the performance bar for you. The plane is very capable. You can be as well.

stewartb wrote:I hate internet flight lessons but I'll offer some advice. If you have any question about the ability of a healthy 182 to operate in and out of 1100' with very low obstructions? Get with a good instructor and go back to exploring your airplane. Use ballast to represent your normal operating weight. Ask him to help you become proficient in short field ops to the commercial pilot standard. That in itself will raise the performance bar for you. The plane is very capable. You can be as well.

Best advise I've read so far!

No offense and no disrespect!

In Costa Rica none of the instructors I know go to short strips.
And they tought me the typical FAA short field in a 5,000ft runway.

So I studied and learned by myself.
Usually stop in 600ft or a bit less at short fields.
But want to know if there is something that can make the plane even better for this operations.
Nothing wrong with asking.

I think the correct heading should be prep the pilot for short runways.
There is no sustitute for practice. 600 feet doesn't look bad when it is paced out on a 3000' foot strip, but when all you have is 600' and 90' wide it is very intimidating. If you look down at a small strip and you think to your self, I think I can do it. You should go practace some more. You have to know you can. Just starting to post I will work on posting videos. Search Utube cessna 182 4th. The strip is 650'.

I saw your videos , great job!!!
The 600ft landings I do at a 1200ft runway.

Motoadve, I really liked that approach and landing. Unlike the vids you posted last year where you were dragging it in really low with a lot of power, this one looked like a really nice stabilized descent. Unfortunately, I'm just a low-time know-it-all on the internet, so you still won't get any credibility from my celebrity endorsement.

kevbert wrote:Motoadve, I really liked that approach and landing. Unlike the vids you posted last year where you were dragging it in really low with a lot of power, this one looked like a really nice stabilized descent. Unfortunately, I'm just a low-time know-it-all on the internet, so you still won't get any credibility from my celebrity endorsement.

Motoadve, I'm thinking you should offer a CFI from here to come down to Costa Rica for a week or two. Fly around with you and get some dual that way. I'm sure somebody would take you up on the offer. Especially if your willing to pay all expenses

Fly safe my 182 freind!

Believe me Im tempted to do this.
My bussines is very slow now, I have the time, but cash is a bit tight.

Can you recommend a good CFI experienced with short field operations in 182's?

Yes, weight in the back helps, but so does trimming the nose *down* a bit on final (not up).

The extra trim tab area sticking up on the tail in this configuration has a surprising effect on flaring abilities. I use it anytime I'm light. Try it out in slow flight first before you use it on final so your forearms know what they are signing up for.

6-7 flicks nose down trim will let you flare aggressively, and cranking in the rest on roll-out or taxi out will let you wheelie your 182 down to around 40mph with power at idle.

Using full nose down trim on mine for taxiing on tall grass or dirt will completely extend the nose strut. Roughly half to 2/3 nose down trim will let me flare to almost dragging the tail even with nothing in the back. With pax or camping gear n the back, it's not really necessary.

I have used this same technique of trimming nose down on a flaps approach on my Tundra with its large elevator surface area and it does make a difference. Not only practice this technique in slow flight as suggested but also the missed approach and feel what it is like with nose down trim going to full throttle trying to climb so that the trim position difference is in your mind before the real landing.

Disclaimer, I am low time compared to many on this site but 90% of my landings over the years have been off airport. Including one that was not intended to be. So I am very experienced in off airport landings.

motoadve wrote:Believe me Im tempted to do this.
My bussines is very slow now, I have the time, but cash is a bit tight.

Can you recommend a good CFI experienced with short field operations in 182's?

I know what you mean about being tight on cash!

Probably the best thing to do is start a new thread asking if any good, experienced CFI's that meet your criteria would be interested in traveling to Costa Rica for a week to give you some lessons. Or better yet, take a flight up north to the U.S. this summer around the BCP Fly In weekend (not sure how much of a pain that would be, though). There's plenty of good instructors to hook up with out of Boise, Caldwell, and McCall to name a few.

Your video definitely shows a better method than your old method. Good job!

Cary