I think I've finally settled on which aircraft I want to buy!

After countless hours on trade-a-plane, barnstormers, youtube, and of course the forums on this website I have decided on a Stinson 108-2/-3.

The main issue I am struggling with now is that I have never flown a Stinson. While all the articles and numbers match my mission more closely than any other aircraft in my price range, I would hate to purchase a plane having never flown one and end up not liking the flight characteristics or realize there is some glaring issue between me and the aircraft.

If anyone knows of a Stinson owner around Western Montana (Missoula area but willing to fly to the Stinson) who would be willing to go for a flight with a very interested passenger (I'll pay for gas!) and answer a few questions I would be SO grateful for contact info!

Also if anyone has anecdotes of flying with someone they had just met be sure to share.

Thanks in advance!

The EAA chapter president at Iowa Falls was a dedicated Stinson 108 owner. He called me up there for a seminar and clinic on Contact Flying years ago. He is a long way off but has flown his Stinson many years and would help you. Midwest hospitality.

If I end up not being able to find someone closer who is willing to fly at least I have one contact now! Thanks for the reply

You might try a more on-point thread title like "Prospective Stinson buyer looking for a ride."

Zzz wrote:You might try a more on-point thread title like "Prospective Stinson buyer looking for a ride."

I agree!

There's gotta be a few around Missoula.... there's a couple in Kalispell, but I'm not sure of flight status. Get ahold of the EAA chapter or ask around at the museum. You could even try the International Stinson Club page if you're on faceplant.
John

There’s one for sale in Billings

Ended up flying down to Hamilton, MT to meet up with a very old and extremely knowledgeable pilot who owns a straight tail 182 and a fantastic example of a Stinson 108-2. I found him on the Stinson owners' website and he emailed me the next day to set up a time to take a look. His Stinson has been extensively restored and updated and is basically a prime example of the potential that 108's have with some elbow grease and an obscene amount of money.

This Stinson had a JPI engine monitor, brand new interior,new fabric, new tail wheel assembly, new yokes, all new gauges, and the icing on the cake, an IO360 up front. I was able to coax out of him that he had "invested" 3X what I had planned for the purchase price of the 108's that I had been looking at. (as near as makes no difference 100k) I'm glad I was able to meet up with him to make me realize that whatever engine and panel come on the one I eventually purchase will likely remain on the aircraft for a LONG time thereafter.


He answered all the dumb questions I had and went back to refitting the panel of his straight tail 182 as I left. Apparently his retirement hobby has been purchasing aircraft, making them better than new, and then selling them.

We chatted for a while but he didn't seem in the flying mood and honestly, I wasn't sure about just randomly hopping in an airplane with someone I had just met so I didn't want to bother him by asking to go fly. He was particularly excited that his 108-2 was built the same year he was born.

On the subject does anyone have any methods of verifying a pilot's abilities before they fly with them or do most of you just judge based on what type of person they seem to be?

p.s. this is the poster who made the original post but couldn't remember my password for the work computer so I now have two profiles

Who you get in an airplane with is a tricky subject . The list for me is very short . Don’t be fooled by tons of hours or all the ratings in the world. Just because someone has a pilot certificate doesn’t mean they should be flying . There are lots of very stupid pilots out there that do stupid things on a daily basis. Just look on you tube for verification of that .

low rider wrote:Who you get in an airplane with is a tricky subject . The list for me is very short . Don’t be fooled by tons of hours or all the ratings in the world. Just because someone has a pilot certificate doesn’t mean they should be flying . There are lots of very stupid pilots out there that do stupid things on a daily basis. Just look on you tube for verification of that .

Agreed. Early on I was so eager for rides that I got into the cockpit with some people that, looking back, I would not today.

We don't always get the chance to observe or psychologically profile the people offering rides, and it can be tough to decline amid the excitement.

My suggestion, be comfortable with the thought of being able to “pilot” it yourself if necessary due to incapacitation or other need should it arise

Two years ago a young student pilot flying out of WA77, thought he was not flying enough with his instructor. A habitual liar told him he knew how to fly the '60 172. The liar told him that he had flown numerous types of airplanes. So the student got his wife filled the 172 with gas and the three of them went flying. After some sightseeing they returned with the liar flying the plane. After six attempts to land at WA77 an 1800 foot runway, another pilot who was landing advised the liar that he should try landing into the wind and not with it. The liar did try to land into the wind, but snagged the fence at the end of the runway, stalled the 172 on an attempted go around, entered an inverted spin and crashed in a park about 100 yards from the end of runway. It was a miracle that all three survived with injuries and have all recovered. It turns out that the liar was a licensed pilot. He got it twenty years before the crash and his medical had not been renewed in twenty years. The moral of the story is do not believe that just because someone says they are a pilot does not mean that they are. The student lost his 172 since it was totaled and because he did not thoroughly check the liar's recent flying experience.

Isn’t the Mountain Flying Museum a “flying” museum? They have a 108. It certainly would be worth stopping by to chat, look it over and see if they will pull it out for a ride.

There’s one in East Idaho that had been recently restored but idk the owners name. If I were you I’d be searching the FAA registration database and cold calling folks. I don’t think I’ve ever had a bad experience when I’ve done that...yet.

As to how to judge who to take a ride with, that’s a tough call and something you’ll have to figure out. I used to be willing to fly with most pilots but life has been teaching me some not so fun lessons so I’m becoming significantly more risk adverse. You’ll never actually know how safe someone is unless you fly with them and that’s a chance I’m no longer willing to take. I only need one hand to count the guys I’ll fly with...and that hand could have two fingers cut off.

whee wrote:As to how to judge who to take a ride with, that’s a tough call and something you’ll have to figure out. I used to be willing to fly with most pilots but life has been teaching me some not so fun lessons so I’m becoming significantly more risk adverse. You’ll never actually know how safe someone is unless you fly with them and that’s a chance I’m no longer willing to take. I only need one hand to count the guys I’ll fly with...and that hand could have two fingers cut off.

This is a really tough decision... If you're too conservative, you will turn down some opportunities that could turn out to be both interesting and educational. If you're too "easy", you may find yourself in some VERY uncomfortable – or even downright dangerous – situations. Here's the thought process I go through.

I'm reasonably comfortable with the risk of flying with someone I may not know all that well – and whose piloting skills are relatively unknown to me – if we're just flying from one airport to another in a "familiar" airplane type (Skyhawk, Cherokee, Bonanza, etc.). The more challenging the flight profile, or the more challenging the airplane itself is to fly, the harder I look at the situation, and the lower my tolerance for risk becomes...

I'm not going to be comfortable flying into the backcountry with just anybody (and that would include some pretty famous YouTube "personalities") because of the elevated level of risk of that type of activity. If I'm the one piloting, I KNOW I can pull the plug and go elsewhere if / when my comfort level is exceeded. But I've seen even some of the really good YouTube pilots take some risks that significantly exceed my personal risk profile. (Water skiing? Nope!)

But even flying "airport to airport", I think the more "challenging" the airplane itself (think Pitts Special), the lower my comfort level gets. I'm not getting into a Pitts Special with just anybody. I'm going to know a lot more about them before I make that decision! Not because the airplane is "dangerous" but because I know that my skill level is insufficient in that airplane to even evaluate the other pilot's ability, and to say "knock it off" when I maybe should...

Even when I've agreed to fly with someone, I'm watching them prepare for the flight. Do they do check weather, perform a W&B calculation (I'm a big guy, so they should!), a good, thorough preflight, etc? Do they use a checklist, or just "wing it" as they go along? All of those things factor into my impressions, and if I get uncomfortable at any point along the way, I would not hesitate to back out of the flight (sudden onset of a migraine headache, etc.).

You have to find your own way to either get comfortable with flying with other people, or (as Whee does) have a very limited group of folks you know well enough to fly with...

I fly a 108-3. I have owned it for 15 or so years. Love the plane. I live in Twin Falls area. I would love to tell you about my plane.

I will be in Three Forks with it a fair amount this fall. The plane is down right this moment as I am putting a 220 and C/S on the plane right now.

For the last 15 years I have flown behind the 165 in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming etc.

Great plane. PM me and we can talk.

Simply look in BStormers for a Stinson near you, call the guy and say you are interested in buying it, when you arrive act like you are interested in it, and then ask for him to take you up for a flight to make sure it “flys straight”, then afterwards tell him you have to ask your wife...happens all the time and from wannabe non-pilots looking for a free flight.

Not a very honorable way to do things. It costs everyone time and expense for a sham. I would not be happy if this happened to me.

soaringhiggy wrote:Not a very honorable way to do things. It costs everyone time and expense for a sham. I would not be happy if this happened to me.

No it’s not, but it happens, and to me. Talk about pissed.
BTW I was being facetious in that post.

Interesting. We went from "how do I get a ride with a complete stranger in an unfamiliar plane?" to wondering how to vet a complete stranger's flying skills.

Sounds like this guy had the plane for quite a while and it's not bent, so he might be just fine. On the other hand I might question his cognitive ability because he's buying airplanes to improve when we all know you can never get your money back out of such projects.

I guess you have to use your own personal judgement when it comes to who you fly with. I find that the pilots that are dangerous are generally well known at the airport. I know who they are at mine.

I've only got a handful of hours in a Stinson so I opted to remain silent when this thread popped up. I ferried one for a friend of mine after it had sat for 9 years. His was "metalized" and had the 150hp Franklin, so it would probably be one of the lowest performing examples you might come across. It flew nicely, with really nice roll control. I experienced some moderate turbulence coming over the mountains, and it was obvious it is a very stout airplane.

Cockpit ergonomics was okay, visibility was good and I would not classify it as a tricky tail dragger by any measure. Reportedly hauls a good load but you might find the fuselage narrower than you imagine when the doors are closed. I'm always hot/cold on the styling of the Stinson but that takes a back seat to how it flies and fits the intended purpose.

It's a lot of plane for the money, and insurance shouldn't be insane.

Stinsons are nice, and they fly really nice.

I have a lot of experience getting in airplanes with other people, partly just as a function of life out here and partly because as a flight instructor, you often do not know what you are getting when you start working with a student. Especially for a new rating/endorsement like tailwheel or seaplane.

In general, if they have been flying the airplane somewhat regularly, and you are just going to fly enough to check out flight characteristics in the local practice area then return and land, I would be comfortable getting in the airplane with them. If you are relying on them for something with a higher risk category, like a challenging landing place, or if they have really not flown in 89 days or if they don't have any time to speak of in the airplane, then I would not be comfortable relying on them to fly. As an instructor...that happens to me all the time though. But both they and I know that I am managing that risk profile from the right seat, so that is different.