Say you’re looking at aircraft logs and the I/A notes something during annual inspection, such as a pin hole leak in an oil cooler, doesn’t fix it, and signs it off as airworthy. Is that just crummy maintenance practice or a departure from the rules?

The discrepancy is actually entered into the logbook? Just making sure of the situation.

I think what he was doing is buying the annual on the aircraft with the exception of the oil cooler. A leak can be airworthy, otherwise radial aircraft would never fly. There are specs for how many drips per minute and so on as to being acceptable. It does put the owner on notice to get the item on the to be repaired list that year. Not actually seeing the entry, he could completed the "inspection" and noting that that item be repaired before further flight. So a mechanic could go and change/overhaul the cooler and the aircraft would not have to go through the annual again. In other words, "I am done here, fix this before you fly."

gbflyer wrote:Say you’re looking at aircraft logs and the I/A notes something during annual inspection, such as a pin hole leak in an oil cooler, doesn’t fix it, and signs it off as airworthy. Is that just crummy maintenance practice or a departure from the rules?

What the hell are you buying NOW? Aloha Justin

Marmaduke wrote:The discrepancy is actually entered into the logbook? Just making sure of the situation.

Yes that is correct.

dogpilot wrote:I think what he was doing is buying the annual on the aircraft with the exception of the oil cooler. A leak can be airworthy, otherwise radial aircraft would never fly. There are specs for how many drips per minute and so on as to being acceptable. It does put the owner on notice to get the item on the to be repaired list that year. Not actually seeing the entry, he could completed the "inspection" and noting that that item be repaired before further flight. So a mechanic could go and change/overhaul the cooler and the aircraft would not have to go through the annual again. In other words, "I am done here, fix this before you fly."

Thank you dogpilot. Here’s the entry. Names scratched out to protect the guilty.

8GCBC wrote:

gbflyer wrote:Say you’re looking at aircraft logs and the I/A notes something during annual inspection, such as a pin hole leak in an oil cooler, doesn’t fix it, and signs it off as airworthy. Is that just crummy maintenance practice or a departure from the rules?

What the hell are you buying NOW? Aloha Justin

Ha! I’ll never tell!


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I’d argue that log book entry is not legal. An item is airworthy or it’s not. Adding a “note” that it needs replacement soon....that doesn’t fall anywhere under the guidance. One would have to look at the specific component maintenance manual/ICA’s for parameters and tolerances. If they are exceeded then the item isn’t airworthy if they are not it is airworthy. If my primary maintenance inspector saw that log entry he’d have a field day with it.

I'm not an IA, but just an A&P. I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, so I'll go ahead and take a stab at how that logbook entry should have looked to be legal per the current CFRs, IMO.

A/C REG:______
DATE:_________
TOTAL A/C TIME:________
TACH TIME:________

I CERTIFY THAT THIS AIRCRAFT HAS BEEN INSPECTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH AN ANNUAL INSPECTION AND A LIST OF DISCREPANCIES & UNAIRWORTHY ITEMS DATED ____________ HAVE BEEN PROVIDED TO THR AIRCRAFT OWNER.

SIGNATURE:____________
CERTIFICATE NO. & TYPE:_____________

The discrepancy list doesn't have to be included in the logbooks. After the IA is done with the inspection and makes the above log entry, any A&P can make a logbook entry stating that the unairworthy item/discrepancies dated XXXXX have been corrected/remedied and the aircraft is good to go.

The IA is covered and the aircraft owner doesn't have to worry about a bunch of gobblygook in his aircraft logs with the flexibility to have any certified mechanic fix the issues.

Just like anything, a vehicle inspection for out of province or country or an aircraft annual inspection sign off. It is valid only until it leaves the shops possession. If you were on a cross country and noticed a minor weep at the cooler- would you instantly ground the aircraft, get a hotel room and find a mechanic to order a cooler? Or would you access the possible severity and if minor continue monitoring it at every stop? Maybe this aircraft only fly's for 5 hours a year. Mechanic would have been better, as was said, to just not put it in the log book.....I highly doubt he greased the flaps or lubed every pulley. No one typically pulls flap rollers on annual just to grease. Some mechanics are better skilled at pencil whipping than others...

Horrible logbook entry. One of the worst.

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X2 on the seminar!

The last few years in middle TN only FAA inspectors have been speaking and answering questions since the state stopped sponsoring the event. It has been very entertaining and informative. The entertainment part is when some IA's arguing with the inspectors about how a proper logbook entry should look like. The inspectors are explaining that a proper entry is exactly what is expected when a surveillance audit is conducted at a maintenance facility when they come!

14 CFR 43.9 & 43.11 clearly outline the requirements.

I haven't allowed an IA to write their own entry in any of my logbooks for decades. I type it up for them myself on an Avery mailing label and let them review it, sign if they approve, and then stick it in the book. This was the way I operated even before I was an A&P.

The practical exam for my A&P certificate included a task to do a log book entry and the DME gave me the FAR book if I wanted to look it up and make sure my entry meets the requirements.

Time for that IA to pick up a book and study up again. It's not rocket surgery. [emoji6]

SOOOOOOO lets talk real world stuff. Does a oil seep/small leak make the plane not airworthy?? If so then I would say 50 percent of GA airplanes should be grounded today. If ya got some paperwork that says any oil leak on the engine is means for grounding (Frankland) then OK, but as a owner I want to know if the plane will fly!!! If it will I want to know about anything need to be address before the next annual/so many hours. That IA made it clear. Your got some stuff to work on, might not want to wait on it. All this she/he wrote stuff is BS. The owner is who is responsible!!
DENNY

Pretty sloppily worded entry, but I’ve seen worse. Actually there is a pencil whipper that writes his logbook entry in a way that I cannot figure out how he’s still an IA let alone have a maintenance shop on the field. I asked to borrow a boroscope one day, and he said “what is that?”

The FAA would frown upon releasing the aircraft for flight with a known oil “seep” in an oil cooler, it’s not going to fix itself.

DENNY wrote:SOOOOOOO lets talk real world stuff. Does a oil seep/small leak make the plane not airworthy?? If so then I would say 50 percent of GA airplanes should be grounded today. If ya got some paperwork that says any oil leak on the engine is means for grounding (Frankland) then OK, but as a owner I want to know if the plane will fly!!! If it will I want to know about anything need to be address before the next annual/so many hours. That IA made it clear. Your got some stuff to work on, might not want to wait on it. All this she/he wrote stuff is BS. The owner is who is responsible!!
DENNY

I don’t disagree. Mostly. The owner of this aircraft is a notorious cheapskate in some respects, very, very generous in others. There are so many undocumented discrepancies on this thing that it’s unbelievable, then noting stuff like the oil cooler and fuel cap gaskets???? I know the I/A has been cutting him a ton of slack on stuff. For the life of me I cannot figure out cutting so many corners with an aircraft that spends probably 50% of the flying time over cold water often times with family or employees aboard. It’s getting real maintenance this time around. Gonna be a lot of pain.

Sounds like a cheap owner that doesn’t want to replace parts. Maybe gives the mechanic we will replace that next year, and the mechanic doesn’t say go someplace else. I have a friend of my dads who has a 172. I’ve told him it needs paint. All I’m doing is fixing corrosion. He said I’ll get it done next year... for the last 3 years. I told him to go someplace else this year. If your not willing to get it painted I’m not willing to sign it off


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AKJurnee wrote:Pretty sloppily worded entry, but I’ve seen worse.

Wow. No, that was not 'sloppy', it was incompetent.