Hope everyone is having a good weekend


As I do choirs around the house, I think to myself,

Self, it would be good to do good, and I always wanted to be called “Mr Ambassador”

Has anyone volunteered with the RAF?
I’d like to help the industry and maybe make a few new friends along the way, but having had the same thought when I started to join the CAP (for a brief minute), thought I’d ask before I jumped in the pool


Thanks

Joined the work party for Chicken Strip grading. I’ll report how it goes.

Is it not our duty to volunteer if we can?

IMO, you should join up and decide for yourself. Lots of people love and support the Sierra Club, RAF is pretty much the same thing but for pilots.

Personally, I prefer a more global perspective on things and don’t think burning down everything and everyone just to get what I want is the right approach.

skyward II wrote:Joined the work party for Chicken Strip grading. I’ll report how it goes.

It is not our duty to volunteer if we can?

Indeed!

Good way to phrase it, thank you

whee wrote:IMO, you should join up and decide for yourself. Lots of people love and support the Sierra Club, RAF is pretty much the same thing but for pilots.

Personally, I prefer a more global perspective on things and don’t think burning down everything and everyone just to get what I want is the right approach.

I’m not sure I follow with the global vs burning something down?

whee wrote:IMO, you should join up and decide for yourself. Lots of people love and support the Sierra Club, RAF is pretty much the same thing but for pilots.

Personally, I prefer a more global perspective on things and don’t think burning down everything and everyone just to get what I want is the right approach.

Not sure I agree, but ok…..

Maybe some enlightenment?

Im an ambassador.

I really don’t do much except say nice things about the RAF and encourage people to support it.
I think it’s a good organization in some ways. But I think a more blue collar/ no collar group that is more hands on would be a better fit for me.

I've never been an actual RAF volunteer (my bad); but, many of the volunteers work their asses off for the love of our type of flying. Great organization and I'm not sure how they could get any more blue collar. Info I've found out recently is that their budget is about as lean as it could possibly be for the amount of work they get done. Amazing group.

I agree that the RAF is the epitome of blue collar in their approach to keeping back country airstrips open. I've been to a couple of their work parties and it's all hands on maintenance and repair of the grounds. Their recent agreement with the National Forest Service in New Mexico basically says the RAF will do all the hands-on maintenance of back country strips in the state if the Forest Service will keep them open. A typical RAF work party focuses on removing brush, mowing and grading back country strips and filling in holes made by gophers, ground squirrels and other burrowing critters. They often erect a new RAF windsock, and install fire pits. Bring good gloves to an RAF work party, or expect blisters for your flight home.

The “don’t give an inch” approach to getting what you want illustrated in the 57 other threads you’ve posted in recently makes me terrified to think about having you in any type of position called an ambassador, especially in a group that represents my interests. The RAF is all about giving an inch to gain a mile. We/they agree to maintain something so the government agencies agree to allow us to keep using it. The RAF implements operating procedures for pilots in order to better preserve what we’re given. There are negotiations, compromise, and relationships. We’re giving an inch.

flyingjack wrote:I've never been an actual RAF volunteer (my bad); but, many of the volunteers work their asses off for the love of our type of flying. Great organization and I'm not sure how they could get any more blue collar. Info I've found out recently is that their budget is about as lean as it could possibly be for the amount of work they get done. Amazing group.

Nice!

Flyhound wrote:I agree that the RAF is the epitome of blue collar in their approach to keeping back country airstrips open. I've been to a couple of their work parties and it's all hands on maintenance and repair of the grounds. Their recent agreement with the National Forest Service in New Mexico basically says the RAF will do all the hands-on maintenance of back country steps in the state if the Forest Service will keep them open. A typical RAF work party focuses on removing brush, mowing and grading back country strips and filling in holes made by gophers, ground squirrels and other burrowing critters. They often erect a new RAF windsock, and install fire pits. Bring good gloves to an RAF work party, or expect blisters for your flight home.

That’s about the type of group I’d hope for

asa wrote:The “don’t give an inch” approach to getting what you want illustrated in the 57 other threads you’ve posted in recently makes me terrified to think about having you in any type of position called an ambassador, especially in a group that represents my interests. The RAF is all about giving an inch to gain a mile. We/they agree to maintain something so the government agencies agree to allow us to keep using it. The RAF implements operating procedures for pilots in order to better preserve what we’re given. There are negotiations, compromise, and relationships. We’re giving an inch.

That fear, and being passive on restrictions and expensive mandates, or even how getting a student pilots cert is now for some reason more of a process than a in and out at the local AMEs shop, all this is one reason why GA is slowly dying

The cost to become a pilot has gone further out of reach each year, how a wing flys and the tech on these planes use hasn’t changed that much, nor have the good legacy airframes in the fleet, the ability to just walk onto a airfield and start up training has gotten harder and harder

Didn’t realize it was 57 threads, maybe a little dramatic?


I’m happy to give back and be the difference I want to see, be that moving dirt and making fire pits on a strip, or calling politicians, or helping organize some people up, I’m invested in the industry, it’s not just a hobby for me



The thought that even making a good living in the industry, that when I have my kids they might not be able to do what I did with how out of reach GA could be by then, that is not acceptable

asa wrote:The RAF is all about giving an inch to gain a mile. We/they agree to maintain something so the government agencies agree to allow us to keep using it. The RAF implements operating procedures for pilots in order to better preserve what we’re given. There are negotiations, compromise, and relationships. We’re giving an inch.

My personal experience is quite different. The very top of the RAF kicked and screamed when they didn’t get their way. Slung mud at people whom local pilots had been building relationships with. Complained to politicians who then drew a microscope to people who’s careers could have been affected. Ultimately they burned so many people and bridges that the grass roots work local pilots had been doing is completely laid to waste.

The RAF does offer operating procedures to help us be good neighbors with other users. But even the RAF brass doesn’t follow them. Consider the public example of the RAF board member screwing the pooch at Dewey Moore. They were doing exactly what they preach against and laughed it off while saying they were there for the rhubarb. This is just one example that happened to be made public. Sit around a campfire with some pilots and you’ll likely hear more.

I’m game to show up for work parties and do other things to promote our realm of aviation, regardless of who is organizing it. What I won’t do is support an organization that wastes my time, ruins my friendships, and only cares about getting what they want. Other users and taxpayers be damned.

whee wrote:

asa wrote:The RAF is all about giving an inch to gain a mile. We/they agree to maintain something so the government agencies agree to allow us to keep using it. The RAF implements operating procedures for pilots in order to better preserve what we’re given. There are negotiations, compromise, and relationships. We’re giving an inch.

My personal experience is quite different. The very top of the RAF kicked and screamed when they didn’t get their way. Slung mud at people whom local pilots had been building relationships with. Complained to politicians when then drew a microscope to people who’s careers could have been affected. Ultimately they burned so many people and bridges that the grass roots work local pilots had been doing is completely laid to waste.

The RAF does offer operating procedures to help us be good neighbors with other users. But even the RAF bass doesn’t follow them. Consider the public example of the RAF board member screwing the pooch at Dewey Moore. They were doing exactly what the preach against and laughed it off while saying they were there for the rhubarb. This is just one example that happened to be made public. Sit around a campfire with some pilots and you’ll likely hear more.

I’m game to show up for work parties and do other things to promote our realm of aviation, regardless of who is organizing it. What I won’t do is support an organization that wastes my time, ruins my friendships, and only cares about getting what they want. Other users and taxpayers be damned.

Thanks for clarifying your POV. No one ever gets everything they want when the “human element” comes into play.

Do they help more than they hurt?

I just want to fill in some ruts……

whee wrote:

asa wrote:The RAF is all about giving an inch to gain a mile. We/they agree to maintain something so the government agencies agree to allow us to keep using it. The RAF implements operating procedures for pilots in order to better preserve what we’re given. There are negotiations, compromise, and relationships. We’re giving an inch.

My personal experience is quite different. The very top of the RAF kicked and screamed when they didn’t get their way. Slung mud at people whom local pilots had been building relationships with. Complained to politicians when then drew a microscope to people who’s careers could have been affected. Ultimately they burned so many people and bridges that the grass roots work local pilots had been doing is completely laid to waste.

The RAF does offer operating procedures to help us be good neighbors with other users. But even the RAF bass doesn’t follow them. Consider the public example of the RAF board member screwing the pooch at Dewey Moore. They were doing exactly what the preach against and laughed it off while saying they were there for the rhubarb. This is just one example that happened to be made public. Sit around a campfire with some pilots and you’ll likely hear more.

I’m game to show up for work parties and do other things to promote our realm of aviation, regardless of who is organizing it. What I won’t do is support an organization that wastes my time, ruins my friendships, and only cares about getting what they want. Other users and taxpayers be damned.

So if what they want is strips open to GA, how is that not good for all of GA?

What they want for the most part is what I want, and if they have a little more teeth and grit than AOPA, that’s a breath of fresh air


When we offer hands of friendship to people who slap them away, that’s just not a viable solution

The path we have been going down aviation wise is not good, it’s not visible, the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and expecting a different result

So if they clear back country strips, make fire pits, and also call congress and make some noise when needed, as well as act on the General Aviation Caucus in U.S. Congress

Seems they do a good deal, but be cool to get some other first hand info

https://theraf.org/about/#projects


However so far

"My personal experience is quite different. The very top of the RAF kicked and screamed when they didn’t get their way. Slung mud at people whom local pilots had been building relationships with. Complained to politicians who then drew a microscope to people who’s careers could have been affected. Ultimately they burned so many people and bridges that the grass roots work local pilots had been doing is completely laid to waste.

The RAF does offer operating procedures to help us be good neighbors with other users. But even the RAF brass doesn’t follow them. Consider the public example of the RAF board member screwing the pooch at Dewey Moore. They were doing exactly what they preach against and laughed it off while saying they were there for the rhubarb. This is just one example that happened to be made public. Sit around a campfire with some pilots and you’ll likely hear more. "

That above from Whee-- Todd Simmons did make a big mistake and nearly cost him his life. He owned up to the mistake and did a long interview on AOPA to hopefully prevent others from doing the same. You make some pretty serious accusations with no facts to back them up Whee. Post them and we can chat.

I've been involved with the RAF for quite some time. I find it to be an honorable organization worthy of my free time and money when I can. I'm involved with many aspects of the RAF at multiple levels. I look forward to your facts Whee.

MW

As they say, if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything.

I just hope RAF does some research…..

MTV

185Midwest wrote:That above from Whee-- Todd Simmons did make a big mistake and nearly cost him his life. He owned up to the mistake and did a long interview on AOPA to hopefully prevent others from doing the same. You make some pretty serious accusations with no facts to back them up Whee. Post them and we can chat.

I've been involved with the RAF for quite some time. I find it to be an honorable organization worthy of my free time and money when I can. I'm involved with many aspects of the RAF at multiple levels. I look forward to your facts Whee.

MW

Zero chance that I will post identifying information in regard to my personal experiences on a public forum. I don’t need my efforts undone again. But I’d be happy to chat amongst pilot friends around a camp fire.

I think it’s wonderful that you openly support the RAF with your time and money. I have good friends that do the same and I appreciate their efforts. They keep me informed about work parties and other things they think I can help with. I’m all for hard work, filling in ruts and building relationships with local land managers so I do my best to show up for those opportunities.

I wouldn’t say Mr. Simmons “owned up” to his mistake. Yes, he told his story and it likely did a lot of good. But nowhere did he say his strip bagging was inappropriate and, in fact, out of line with the RAF Guiding Principles and Code of Conduct. The fact they were laughing at their reason for going into Dewy is a clear reflection of how they view their own guidelines.

Anyway, 93K asked for opinions about an organization and I have one so I shared it. It’s okay that others have a different opinion and that he appears to be leaning that way. I’d still be happy to share a campfire with all of you.

Fair enough.

MW

I will also be at the Chicken Strip workparty this weekend. Shovel, Pick, Hoe , wheel barrow , and canned maragritas

mtv wrote:As they say, if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything.

I just hope RAF does some research…..

MTV

It seems some thought my comment was in reference to Whee’s. It wasn’t. It was reference the OP.

MTV