It is only right that I am number 100 in this thread cus I started it.

When I priced policies last, I found one a bit cheaper but they only allowed charted strips. I stayed with the one I have had for the last seven years and paid the extra 85 bucks and am covered on dry lakes, and you name it. I specificly asked about my ranch and they said I am covered.

Probably covered on I-80 also. Hope I never have to do that again.

Tim

58Skylane wrote:

Bonanza Man wrote:Unless your policy specifically prohibits it, which is very rare, you can land anywhere.

My policy says that if I F up my plane at a charted airport or land anywhere for a real emergancy, I am covered. So if I land and F up my plane at an uncharted private strip or even a dry lake bed, I'm S. O. L.!! Comes out of my pocket!!

What insurance company is that? I've had Avemco, USAIG, Global and one other who's name escapes me right now. None of those policies has one word in there about where you can or cannot land. It just simply isn't mentioned, on my policy I have now or with the 182 I used to have. I've heard of some pretty restrictive policies for low time Cub pilots such as no landing on gravel bars, no taking aerial pictures, no coyote hunting, etc.

Bonanza Man wrote:

58Skylane wrote:

Bonanza Man wrote:Unless your policy specifically prohibits it, which is very rare, you can land anywhere.

My policy says that if I F up my plane at a charted airport or land anywhere for a real emergancy, I am covered. So if I land and F up my plane at an uncharted private strip or even a dry lake bed, I'm S. O. L.!! Comes out of my pocket!!

What insurance company is that? I've had Avemco, USAIG, Global and one other who's name escapes me right now. None of those policies has one word in there about where you can or cannot land.

Careful making a blanket statement like that...Global has wording in their policies preventing operations on water, snow, or ice while on either ski's or floats and sometimes even adds the off airport exclusion, but it is rare.

If I had to guess I would bet the policy is with Phoenix...also known as Old Republic. Phoenix selectively puts the off airport exclusion on their policies based on a number of factors including aircraft type as well as location. Being that 58Skylane is located in Idaho it may very well cause the off airport exclusion on their policy. They have re-written their underwriting criteria in the last 6 months and I have not seen the exclusion on the policies nearly as often as was previously the case, but they still put it on there on a case-by case basis.

This is an article that was printed in our last magazine that speaks to the off airport exclusion...you may find it helpful.

http://www.aviationinsurance.com/files/ ... enPath.pdf

qmdv wrote:A question for our resident insurance guy.

I know of a private residencial strip on the California coast that requires folks that want to land have the strip listed as additionally insured. What would be the cost of that.

Also, some folks have stated that if they bend up their plane, they will take the responsibility. If their insurance pays up then that is fine by them. Wouldn't the insurance co then just sue the land owner. Also if the plane got bent up in such a manor that it killed the pilot, then I do not think that, after talking to a lawer and determining my net worth, the good wife would be as easy going as the pilot that said they would be responsible for the F*** UP.

Tim

It is the underwriters option as to whether they are willing to add the strip as an additional insured or not. It is not uncommon to have them added and is normally free of charge, but it is usually with reference to either their hangar / storage of the aircraft or for the normal operations on the named insured...it does not include operations of the airport or negligent acts or omissions. Remember, the policy is written to protect the policyholder...not everyone else who want's to join in.

AIG wording - "The scheduled person or organizations are included as additional insured under the liability coverages, but only as respects operations of the named insured."

US Specialty wording - "The person or Organization named in this endorsement is included as an insured, but only as respects their ground storage or tiedown of your aircraft. Storage or tiedown does not included in motion or in flight aircraft operations."

Adding someone as an additional insured does not prevent the insurance company from subrogating against them to recover their loss. You would need to get a Waiver of Subrogation in order to prevent that and most underwriters are very stingy when it comes to granting that waiver.

The other part of the equation is that even if the underwriter does grant a waiver, it is usually the third parties that you have to worry about...the surviving widow, estate, etc. Keep in mind as well that if you add an additional insured to your policy you are diluting your limit as it now must be divided between the policyholder and all the additional insureds. I for one do not like to pay for someone elses insurance just so they can save a few bucks.

lancef53 wrote:lowflybye, do you have any other cases besides the golf course one? That one seems like a little bit of a stretch based on what the thread started with. A paved runway at a country club/golf resort seems like a lawyers dream, then park a tractor on the runway to boot.

I am starting to think the backhoe is the best idea yet.

We don't see very many claims on the private strip behind someones house unless they are in the habit of hosting fly-in events and such, or if it is a fly-in community. This is why the annual premium for those type of accounts is relatively inexpensive.

As was listed in the article, a private strip behind someones house is about the most benign liability you can have when it comes to airport liability...the decision basically comes down to if you want to self insure and restrict your airport, or let someone else take the worry and enjoy your strip knowing that your covered.

If you pay $1,500 annually and you live on the strip for 30 years you will have paid $45,000...that is often times less than it cost to build the hangar. For me, it's sleep insurance and I would have no fears letting people drop in and visit me or host a fly-in...that is why I am in aviation to begin with...the comradery and the fun.

Bonanza Man wrote:

58Skylane wrote:

Bonanza Man wrote:Unless your policy specifically prohibits it, which is very rare, you can land anywhere.

My policy says that if I F up my plane at a charted airport or land anywhere for a real emergancy, I am covered. So if I land and F up my plane at an uncharted private strip or even a dry lake bed, I'm S. O. L.!! Comes out of my pocket!!

What insurance company is that? I've had Avemco, USAIG, Global and one other who's name escapes me right now. None of those policies has one word in there about where you can or cannot land. It just simply isn't mentioned, on my policy I have now or with the 182 I used to have. I've heard of some pretty restrictive policies for low time Cub pilots such as no landing on gravel bars, no taking aerial pictures, no coyote hunting, etc.

Sorry , I reported old information. I just talked to my insurance company and I am covered anywhere I land as long as I use common since. My insurance is Global and it's through AOPA.

Now, if Tim (or any of my other friends) invites me over to land at his strip, reports that the strip is in excellent shape and I come in and bend up my plane. My insurance company will pay for any of the damages. If my insurance company finds that my friend is at fault (which they very seldom do), then they will pursue him and his insurance company for payment. In most cases, they don't even try to collect from the other insurance company or land owner because it's usually not cost effective.

More than likely if I F up my plane at someone elses strip, it's going to be my fault anyway.

lowflybye wrote:

lancef53 wrote:lowflybye, do you have any other cases besides the golf course one? That one seems like a little bit of a stretch based on what the thread started with. A paved runway at a country club/golf resort seems like a lawyers dream, then park a tractor on the runway to boot.

I am starting to think the backhoe is the best idea yet.

We don't see very many claims on the private strip behind someones house unless they are in the habit of hosting fly-in events and such, or if it is a fly-in community. This is why the annual premium for those type of accounts is relatively inexpensive.

As was listed in the article, a private strip behind someones house is about the most benign liability you can have when it comes to airport liability...the decision basically comes down to if you want to self insure and restrict your airport, or let someone else take the worry and enjoy your strip knowing that your covered.

If you pay $1,500 annually and you live on the strip for 30 years you will have paid $45,000...that is often times less than it cost to build the hangar. For me, it's sleep insurance and I would have no fears letting people drop in and visit me or host a fly-in...that is why I am in aviation to begin with...the comradery and the fun.

Do you sell these policies nationwide or just in certain states? I can see where the state laws will affect the sales. Here in Montana there doesn't seem to be much need for airstrip insurance but in other states it looks like you can't buy enough.

I once landed a a seldom used friend's strip heading into a late afternoon sun. He had a high tinsel fence wire stretched across it. Of course I didn't see it. Earlier he had cattle grazing there. A few days before my friend told me that he moved the cattle off the strip, so I ASSumed, the wire would be down!

I fixed his fence and paid for my propeller repair and the new windshield without involving my insurance company because I knew they would have gone after him.

I always wondered how many of my friends would have done that, if it had been my fence on my strip??

Bonanza Man wrote:Do you sell these policies nationwide or just in certain states? I can see where the state laws will affect the sales. Here in Montana there doesn't seem to be much need for airstrip insurance but in other states it looks like you can't buy enough.

We sell nationwide with the exception of only a few states and the polices do vary widely on a state to state basis.