Mike,

I have the Alaska Co-pilot, fantastic gun! Mine is synthetic stock with truck bed liner coating. This is NOT a "pretty gun" but a "working gun". It not the stainless but coated which I forgot the name of the coating. For me this is my bear gun, I went with the truck bed liner for better grip if your hands a re slimy from cleaning fish or dressing game and need to use it quickly. There are better guns for the small game stuff but this is my bear gun. Breaks down. Get one!

Kurt

Hammer wrote:I love guns. I have 18 rifles, 9 shotguns, and almost a dozen handguns. But I only cary a handgun in the airplane. I've thought about it a hundred times and then some, but I always come to the conclusion that the weight an bulk of the long guns is just wasted. Look at the money people spend to convert to lightweight starters or to shed ounces out of their interiors...all wasted by simply adding a rifle or shotgun, never mind the ammo.

The scout rifles and 45-70's are sexy, but absolutely useless unless you're expecting a bear attack...something about as likely as being hit by lightning if you camp right, and something usually much better addressed a by super-light, inexpensive can of bear spray. Get stuck by weather for a few days and see how F&G reacts to you killing a big game animal for sustenance. Better yet, try harvesting a grouse or hare with that weapon and see what's left for dinner. OR...figure out how many freeze dried, nutritionally complete meals you could cary for the weight of the weapon and ammo, never mind the cost.

99% of the time the only handgun I cary is a scandium .357 snub nose revolver, because the only thing I anticipate needing to ever shoot is another human. I throw a few shot shells in, as it allows me to harvest grouse and hares very affectively out to about 40 feet. Past that a gun is just a play toy, at least in the lower 48, and that includes grizzly habitat. If you get bothered by a grizzly at an airstrip in the lower 48, you're so sloppy in your camping that you pretty much deserve what you get.

Black bears can be troublesome, but I trust good camping practices, a can of bear spray and a .357 back-up MORE than enough. I've lived around black bears all my life...close quarters much of the time... I'm respectful of them, but not at all fearful.

Cary an gun if you want to because it's fun, but it rarely pencils out as a cost/weight/bulk-effective survival tool. Some places it does, but not often.

Agree X2

G44 wrote:Mike,

I have the Alaska Co-pilot, fantastic gun! Mine is synthetic stock with truck bed liner coating. This is NOT a "pretty gun" but a "working gun". It not the stainless but coated which I forgot the name of the coating. For me this is my bear gun, I went with the truck bed liner for better grip if your hands a re slimy from cleaning fish or dressing game and need to use it quickly. There are better guns for the small game stuff but this is my bear gun. Breaks down. Get one!

Kurt

Kurt,

This is along the lines of my thinking as well, since we've been doing a lot more hunting out of the Skywagon. The setup you describe is a heck of a lot more practical, for sure.

Hammer wrote: If you get bothered by a grizzly at an airstrip in the lower 48, you're so sloppy in your camping that you pretty much deserve what you get.

Black bears can be troublesome, but I trust good camping practices, a can of bear spray and a .357 back-up MORE than enough. I've lived around black bears all my life...close quarters much of the time... I'm respectful of them, but not at all fearful.

Cary an gun if you want to because it's fun, but it rarely pencils out as a cost/weight/bulk-effective survival tool. Some places it does, but not often.

I totally agree with the idea of carrying a gun because it is fun and I don't advocate always carrying a big enough gun to stop a grizzly just because there is a slight chance of a grizzly encounter, but I strongly disagree that good camping habits will preclude a nasty bear encounter. Any hike in bear country gives you a small but real chance of wandering between a sow and her cubs. Or running into a bitchy critter that doesn't like the way you smell.

Some elements of dangerous animal encounters we can control, many we can't. Personally, if I'm going to be in a situation where either a bear or me might die I like to be able to decide who is going down. Unarmed or under-armed people don't make to get that decision.

Another vote here for the Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 but anybody that puts a scope on a lever gun is committing an unforgivable aesthetic violation unless that is the only rifle owned by a subsistence hunter. A ghost ring or peep sight is acceptable.

I've never owned a gun, and am waiting to receive my Possesion and Aquisition License in the mail. I'd like a gun to have in the airplane for much of the terrain I fly over. Mostly for protection from wildlife, not sustenance. I'm not a marksman, and may not be very handy with a gun if it's needed in an emergency. Assembling a break-down gun isn't attractive. My thought has been a 12 gauge alternating slugs and buckshot. I'd like it to have as short a barrel as is legal in Canada, and a folding stock. I'm not confident I can control a pistol grip if the chips are down. Carrying a bit of smaller shot in case I think I need small game for a meal wouldn't cost much payload. Any suggestions which model or manufacturer offers such a firearm?

Interested in all comments along this line of thinking as opposed to the rifles mentioned so far.

Forget the sustenance aspect, like Hammer says just pack rations - lighter and more likely to feed you. Forget alternating buckshot, load slugs. Forget magnum clambering, 2 3/4 is fine and cycles more reliably. Forget pistol grip: can't aim, slow second shot. Folding stock might be ok, never tried one, but check on legalities on how that affects barrel length. I'd go 18-20" barrel. I use an old Browning Auto 5 'cause I happened to have one, and found a cheap 20" barrel, but I wouldn't be buying one for your purpose. Remington, Mossberg, Winchester. Pump or auto, probably auto if you haven't handled a pump a lot.

BTW, I priced those WWG Alaskan Copilots. Jeez, 4 au and closer to 6 with some options. Priced for already numb Cessna owners. And it isn't even a good hunting rig. Looks cool though.

albravo wrote: ......Another vote here for the Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 but anybody that puts a scope on a lever gun is committing an unforgivable aesthetic violation ........

Getting eaten by wildlife is something we Aussie don't have to worry about (except croc's up far Nth) - but an 18" 45/70 lever gun (very hard to legally own an semi down here) with ghost ring sights sure is a lot fun with pigs in the scrub. Mate of mine put a scope on his, once, still has scar of his forehead.

Pinecone wrote:I've never owned a gun, and am waiting to receive my Possesion and Aquisition License in the mail. I'd like a gun to have in the airplane for much of the terrain I fly over. Mostly for protection from wildlife, not sustenance. I'm not a marksman, and may not be very handy with a gun if it's needed in an emergency. Assembling a break-down gun isn't attractive. My thought has been a 12 gauge alternating slugs and buckshot. I'd like it to have as short a barrel as is legal in Canada, and a folding stock. I'm not confident I can control a pistol grip if the chips are down. Carrying a bit of smaller shot in case I think I need small game for a meal wouldn't cost much payload. Any suggestions which model or manufacturer offers such a firearm?

Interested in all comments along this line of thinking as opposed to the rifles mentioned so far.

I'd probably go with a Mossberg pump for your application. I've heard and seen some bad things with the winchester pump. Remington makes a fine shotgun as well. I think it's Mossberg that has a relatively cheap tactical type that would work great though. I'm more into goose hunting and clay shooting shotguns. I really like my Benelli super black eagle 2 in 3.5 in semi, and my Remington 1187 in 20 guage also works great. But they are long barrels and not very good for packing. My next shotgun will be the new Benelli over under. Sweet gun, but again more of a field and clay gun, not one for packing.

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

I'm with David. I have a Mossberg 500 that has been an absolute workhorse. It always cycles, and goes boom when it is supposed to. Mine has the full stock. It came with a pistol grip but that damn thing is completely useless unless you are trying to take gangsta' selfies.

This reminds me of some words of wisdom I once received. The two most terrifying sounds are 1) something that goes boom when it was supposed to go click and 2) something that goes click when it is supposed to go boom.

Pinecone wrote:I've never owned a gun, and am waiting to receive my Possesion and Aquisition License in the mail. I'd like a gun to have in the airplane for much of the terrain I fly over. Mostly for protection from wildlife, not sustenance. I'm not a marksman, and may not be very handy with a gun if it's needed in an emergency. Assembling a break-down gun isn't attractive. My thought has been a 12 gauge alternating slugs and buckshot. I'd like it to have as short a barrel as is legal in Canada, and a folding stock. I'm not confident I can control a pistol grip if the chips are down. Carrying a bit of smaller shot in case I think I need small game for a meal wouldn't cost much payload. Any suggestions which model or manufacturer offers such a firearm?

Interested in all comments along this line of thinking as opposed to the rifles mentioned so far.

I just carry a cheap, relatively short 12-gauge pump. I have no difficulty finding space in the baggage compartment of the PA-12 for this, should be no problem at all in a 185. At the cabin the firing order is two bear-bangers, two rubber bullets and two slugs. I can do without having a stinky bear carcass around camp so I'd prefer to scare them off rather than kill them. But when we're out for a hike the shotgun is loaded just with slugs as it would be bad news to surprise a blueberry-picking grizzly in the willows.

I might carry a handgun if it wasn't such a PITA to own one in Canada.

Sure, carry a couple of #6 if you want, but I don't think you should have to worry about food, just carry some rations. You'll be filing a flight plan when flying in the boonies (right?) and sticking to it (right?). You have an ELT (maybe also a PLB, Spot/InReach/ sat 'phone) so you'll be found and picked up long before you get seriously hungry.

albravo said:

Getting eaten by wildlife is something we Aussie don't have to worry about

Yeah but those brown snakes can do you in.

For a shotgun legal in Canada for protection from wildlife, consider a Mossberg 500 Mariner boat gun. It's stainless steel, has a composite stock that carries extra ammo, and it's barrel is barely more than the 18" minimum. It's not a take-down, but it's fairly compact, and of course, Mossberg reliable.

Cary

TomD wrote:Oz said:

Getting eaten by wildlife is something we Aussie don't have to worry about

Yeah but those brown snakes can do you in.

Yeh, but they only bite you a couple of times and slither off to leave you to die in agony. At least they don't keep chewing and munching on you on you while scream your head off waiting to pass out due to blood loss. A much more preferable alternative.

Besides their a protected species and it's against the law to shoot them, it's the drop bears you have to really look out for!

https://australianmuseum.net.au/drop-bear

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_bear

Excellent comments from everyone. Thank You!

I'll look at the Mosberg and Remington Mariner models. I'll consider a semi auto, but believe I can handle a pump. There are aftermarket folding stock options available in Canada for low cost.

I don't think I'll starve. I have a 121.5 ELT, 406 PLB, InReach, and snacks to get me by. I don't file flight plans because I forget to close them, and don't always have a means of communication when I land. I do have friends watching my InReach and satellite text them at the start and end of each flight. I also like to wander, don't stick to a planned route. The InReach gives me that luxury.

hotrod180 wrote:

Karmutzen wrote:.... took along a little 14" 30/30 Contender carbine ...

I know gun laws are different in Canada but I always thought they were more onerous, maybe not the case here?
In the US, a 14" barreled Contender with a pistol grip would be fine, but with a buttstock I believe the barrel has to be at least 16" long.
There might even be a problem depending on whether the frame was originally a "rifle" or a "handgun".
There are laws against short-barreled rifles and I think maybe also against butt-stocked handguns.
Some of our laws are splitting hairs, or worse, but that's how the legislators roll.

Correct on all counts. 16" minimum length on a rifle or expect prison time. Also a butt stock or forward grip on anything called a handgun gets the ATF quite excited.
It is declared as a pistol or rifle on the 4473. Changing such is akin to making a certified plane an experimental: frowned upon to say the least.
You CAN obtain such a piece if it is built as an AOW (any other weapon), with a $200 tax stamp and background check. My info might be dated on that last point.

But really, good points made:
As a former cyclist and model airplane builder, shaving ounces and then throwing in a heavy rifle doesn't compute.
A lightweight marine shotgun gets my vote.

Oh, and a scope on a lever gun? WTF

Oz wrote: Getting eaten by wildlife is something we Aussie don't have to worry about .....

Don't know about freshies, but it seems like a salt water croc could make a liar out of you on that one.

hotrod180 wrote:

Oz wrote: Getting eaten by wildlife is something we Aussie don't have to worry about .....

Don't know about freshies, but it seems like a salt water croc could make a liar out of you on that one.

Agree on the salties (only been up that way twice - was cautious - have edited the post), but really only if your silly enough to swim in the rivers or camp within ~200m of the river bank - bit like the brown snakes, it's also probably less painfull to get eaten by the croc than shoot one and spend the umpteen years in gaol for killing a protected / endangered species.

It might seem like a strange choice, but the shotgun that I get the most use out of is a double-barrel 12 gauge with the barrels cut down to 18-1/4". No choke at all, one trigger per barrel. Accurate with slugs to about forty feet...twenty is better.

Because there's no receiver, the gun is substantially shorter than a pump or auto with the same barrel length. Much simpler, too.

With trap loads it's absolutely brilliant for hares or grouse in deep cover where you only get a tiny, close shooting window. For those afraid of close encounters of the furry kind you can load a grouse shell in one barrel and a slug in the other. In 30+ years of using it I've never mistaken one trigger for the other.

It's also my preferred bear defense gun. And before anyone makes a stink about it, I'm WELL aware of the inherent disadvantage of only having two shots...been over that a hundred times and then some, and I'm comfortable with the trade off.

The reason I prefer it for defense is because it guarantees that if I get any shot at all, it will be two shots. It's easy and natural to pull both triggers at the same time. If I do my job aiming the weapon, that's about as much short-range stopping power as you can get.

The inherent inaccuracy of the weapon at any distance is a powerful incentive to wait until the last second before firing. Grizzlies often bluff charge, and shooting a bear that wasn't going to make contact with you to begin with does NOT increase your chances of survival. Shooting a bear in no way guarantees it won't rip you to shreds before it expires.

I possibly incur a greater risk of failure by waiting longer and only having two shots. I personally feel that's a reasonable tradeoff to give the bear every chance not to be killed, and me every chance not to turn a bluff into a contact. I'd much rather kill another person in self defense than a bear...just don't want to have to do it.

One of the last reasons I prefer it for defense is because one of the few times I've ever felt the need to cary a long gun is during elk season. The proliferation of gut piles here, there, and everywhere makes it extremely difficult to judge where the bears are, and once a bear has claimed a gut pile they get pretty defensive about it. F&G could cite me for carrying a long gun without a hunting license, but having such a ridiculously inaccurate weapon and nothing but slugs to feed it makes a pretty good case for it being defensive-only. Lot easier than trying to explain why I'm walking around with a .348 Winchester lever gun, anyway.

A quick word about shotgun slugs...the 1oz slugs you buy at MegaloMart are designed as an anti-personnel round and lack the penetration needed for bears. Brenneke is the only company I'm aware of that makes a proper deep-penetrating slug suitable for the job. And forget buckshot...it lacks even a fraction of the penetration needed to be reliable.

I think all the replies illustrate that the answer depends on where you're going, what you're doing, and what you want the gun to do. I personally think .308 is light for defending against anything bigger than a black bear when you're in camp. And I always liked having a
12-gauge in camp because no matter how careful & clean I tried to be I'd always end up smelling like salmon (or trout, or walleye) on a fishing trip.IMHO, I suppose if you want to eat, take a .22. If you're worried about assorted varmints, take a .44 mag or larger. My $.02

"A quick word about shotgun slugs...the 1oz slugs you buy at MegaloMart are designed as an anti-personnel round and lack the penetration needed for bears. Brenneke is the only company I'm aware of that makes a proper deep-penetrating slug suitable for the job. And forget buckshot...it lacks even a fraction of the penetration needed to be reliable."

If you reload shotshell, try B.P. Dangerous Game Slugs, 504 grains.