Nice scope!
I've been going the opposite direction, scrounging components for the long-discontinued .348 Winchester. 'Bout the only thing the two cartridges have in common is gunpowder.

Hammer wrote:Nice scope!
I've been going the opposite direction, scrounging components for the long-discontinued .348 Winchester. 'Bout the only thing the two cartridges have in common is gunpowder.

And the ability to kill shit.

Yeah, I'm loving the Zeiss these days. That is a V4 6-24 and I wish I would have gone to the V6 5-30. Targets get pretty small at long distance and the 6.5 should be a 1000 yard shooter. Terminal performance on elk sized critters out to 800. Pretty cool cartridge.

I like the 6.5 creedmore. My buddy has one and we shoot 1000 with it with a 15 power scope. I shoot my 338 lapua mag at 1000 with a 20. But I'd like to go with a 24 power Steiner...

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MTV's post about his Mannlicher stocked .375 made me think of my matched set of Mannlicher stocked .308's.



My great uncle Guy was a gunsmith who built many rifles, mostly on Mauser actions from Rockisland Arsenal. Some he rebored, some he fabricated new barrels for, using truck axels for the blanks.



The .308's were commissioned by my uncle and my grandfather at the same time. My uncle had young eyes, so his has a fixed peep sight that's zeroed at 200 yards. Grandpa put on one of those new-fangled scopes...2.5 power.

For reasons that were never clear to me, Guy's wife hated his family, and when he died she sold all his guns to a broker before anyone could ask for one. She wouldn't even tell us which broker she sold them to.

Out of the six surviving guns he built, I have four of them. The two .308's, a 30-06, and a .243. Interesting side note, the .243 was his favorite elk gun.

I'm an Ontario, Canada hunter and a 243 has been both my go to caliber and my father's before me, other then a 22K Hornet for plinking woodchucks and a scatter gun for upland birds, ducks and geese

Pffft! Everybody knows you can't kill anything with a .243. That's why MAGNUMS were built!

albravo wrote:Pffft! Everybody knows you can't kill anything with a .243. That's why MAGNUMS were built!

Exactly! Haha. Although in full disclosure I've folded up around 10 buffalo with 1 shot each from my 243... I love that rifle. But I pack my 45/70 or 338 Lapua mag for bear protection.

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Hammer wrote:MTV's post about his Mannlicher stocked .375 made me think of my matched set of Mannlicher stocked .308's.



My great uncle Guy was a gunsmith who built many rifles, mostly on Mauser actions from Rockisland Arsenal. Some he rebored, some he fabricated new barrels for, using truck axels for the blanks.



The .308's were commissioned by my uncle and my grandfather at the same time. My uncle had young eyes, so his has a fixed peep sight that's zeroed at 200 yards. Grandpa put on one of those new-fangled scopes...2.5 power.

For reasons that were never clear to me, Guy's wife hated his family, and when he died she sold all his guns to a broker before anyone could ask for one. She wouldn't even tell us which broker she sold them to.

Out of the six surviving guns he built, I have four of them. The two .308's, a 30-06, and a .243. Interesting side note, the .243 was his favorite elk gun.

I love the look and handling of those short full stock Mannlicher rifles. If mine had been an -06, I’d still own it.

A side note: back when I was a kid, my Dad worked on the National Bison Range. They did a herd reduction on elk and deer each fall, all shooting done by staff, and all head shots. The NBR has a slaughterhouse on the refuge, the critters were taken there, slaughtered and the meat went to the western MT school lunch programs.

I ate a lot of venison in school lunches back when.

Every one of those deer and elk were killed with Model 70 Winchester’s in .243 Winchester. No wounded....all head shots.

MTV

It's a thing of beauty when WE all agree, 243 it is !!!!!!!!

A1Skinner wrote:

albravo wrote:Pffft! Everybody knows you can't kill anything with a .243. That's why MAGNUMS were built!

Exactly! Haha. Although in full disclosure I've folded up around 10 buffalo with 1 shot each from my 243... I love that rifle. But I pack my 45/70 or 338 Lapua mag for bear protection.

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You don't see many .338 Lapua's with iron sights...or is that for protection against bears that are a mile out?

I think it's interesting that the Danish Sirius Sled Patrol, the military unit responsible for patrolling Greenland via dog sled in two-man teams, never found a need for anything more powerful than the 30-06 to protect themselves agains polar bears and musk ox, and they recently switched to the .308...both bolt guns, not semi-auto's. They did upgrade the the standard issue 9mm sidearm to the 10mm Glock 20, since polar bears are the only reason they even cary a side arm.

Polar bears probably have a different personality than brown bears, but they're just as big. Maybe someone should contact Denmark and let them know that their troops are under-gunned...

My guess is that the response, if there was one, would be an invitation to come teach them something about marksmanship, and if you can do that, then we'll talk about cartridges.

Hammer wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:

albravo wrote:Pffft! Everybody knows you can't kill anything with a .243. That's why MAGNUMS were built!

Exactly! Haha. Although in full disclosure I've folded up around 10 buffalo with 1 shot each from my 243... I love that rifle. But I pack my 45/70 or 338 Lapua mag for bear protection.

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You don't see many .338 Lapua's with iron sights...or is that for protection against bears that are a mile out?

I think it's interesting that the Danish Sirius Sled Patrol, the military unit responsible for patrolling Greenland via dog sled in two-man teams, never found a need for anything more powerful than the 30-06 to protect themselves agains polar bears and musk ox, and they recently switched to the .308...both bolt guns, not semi-auto's. They did upgrade the the standard issue 9mm sidearm to the 10mm Glock 20, since polar bears are the only reason they even cary a side arm.

Polar bears probably have a different personality than brown bears, but they're just as big. Maybe someone should contact Denmark and let them know that their troops are under-gunned...

My guess is that the response, if there was one, would be an invitation to come teach them something about marksmanship, and if you can do that, then we'll talk about cartridges.

Haha. I guess I should reword that to say I carry my 45/70 for bear protection, unless I'm out hunting with my 338 Lapua, then I would use it if needed.
I would gladly pack a 308 or 30-06 but the lever action 18" barreled 45/70 is just so easy to pack. Its between the fenders on my quad so stays clean, is a nice scabbard gun for my horse, and works well in the plane as well. Although my 44 mag ranch hand has been slowly taking over in all the above categories...

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Hammer, that's a nice brace of rifles!
I've always been a model 70 fan, own two of them,
but I also have a soft spot for nice sporterized 03 Springfields.
I've always had a soft spot for Mannlicher stocked carbines too--
in fact, I'd love to have an original 1903 Mannlicher-Schnonauer carbine in 6.5x54.

Hello. I am not a certified pilot ( yet ), but can certainly say, that you couldn't go wrong with a Mossberg .308. The rifle has a 3 round clip I believe, and is very accurate. It shoots up to 180 grain, and I'm not sure, but I think the low end is like 120-130 grain. Would it stop a charging grizzly at 10 yards? That depends on your aim. Also, it is not uncommon for ol' grizz to keep fighting after you shoot him. This has been the case even with .375 Rugers once in a while. That said, it is more about disabling his shoulders/front and hind legs when he's charging you. The .308, having excellent penetration and fps, would not have a problem doing that if you can place a bulls eye on the first time. I'm saying " if you can place a bulls eye on the first time ", because the Mossberg .308 is a bolt action, and a charging grizzly at 10 yards is gonna give you no more than about 3, maybe 4 seconds to stop him. For hunting, the .308 would not be my first choice for grizzly, but it will do great for deer, elk, and, if you can place a good shot, it can definently prove to be more than adequate on moose. A .300 Win Mag, and a good aim, would be my grizzly hunting recommendation. .300 Win Mag will also be excellent for moose hunting, provided you have good aim, but are quite a bit more kick than a .308.
.308s I think have about 18lbs of recoil, and .300 Win Mags have like 26. Than again, I would not take a .308 grizzly hunting if at all possible. In terms of deffense, you couldn't go wrong with a double action .357 Mag Ruger, and 125 grain bullets. Happy flying/shooting!

IdahoBushFlyin wrote:Hello. I am not a certified pilot ( yet ), but can certainly say, that you couldn't go wrong with a Mossberg .308. The rifle has a 3 round clip I believe, and is very accurate. It shoots up to 180 grain, and I'm not sure, but I think the low end is like 120-130 grain. Would it stop a charging grizzly at 10 yards? That depends on your aim. Also, it is not uncommon for ol' grizz to keep fighting after you shoot him. This has been the case even with .375 Rugers once in a while. That said, it is more about disabling his shoulders/front and hind legs when he's charging you. The .308, having excellent penetration and fps, would not have a problem doing that if you can place a bulls eye on the first time. I'm saying " if you can place a bulls eye on the first time ", because the Mossberg .308 is a bolt action, and a charging grizzly at 10 yards is gonna give you no more than about 3, maybe 4 seconds to stop him. For hunting, the .308 would not be my first choice for grizzly, but it will do great for deer, elk, and, if you can place a good shot, it can definently prove to be more than adequate on moose. A .300 Win Mag, and a good aim, would be my grizzly hunting recommendation. .300 Win Mag will also be excellent for moose hunting, provided you have good aim, but are quite a bit more kick than a .308.
.308s I think have about 18lbs of recoil, and .300 Win Mags have like 26. Than again, I would not take a .308 grizzly hunting if at all possible. In terms of deffense, you couldn't go wrong with a double action .357 Mag Ruger, and 125 grain bullets. Happy flying/shooting!

So...
At the risk of getting the wet-blanked award, the general MO at BCP is to post about things with which you have first-hand experience, unique insight, or general expertise. We all have access to wikipedia...

Im not sure there is much of anything that will stop a Big brown at ten yards.
Perhaps something in a Sherman or Caterpillar?


With heartbeats in the 8 beats per minute range it just takes them a while to realize they are dead or have a broken shoulder.

Goldinthecreek wrote:Im not sure there is much of anything that will stop a Big brown at ten yards.
Perhaps something in a Sherman or Caterpillar?


With heartbeats in the 8 beats per minute range it just takes them a while to realize they are dead or have a broken shoulder.

Just yell in a clear loud voice that you do not consent.

So I bought this rifle when I was flying in Tanzania for use on a cape buffalo hunt. Its a Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 African / Super Grade in .458 Win Mag. Express sights only.

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Goldinthecreek wrote:With heartbeats in the 8 beats per minute range it just takes them a while to realize they are dead or have a broken shoulder.

Only for a hibernating bear, which hopefully isn’t an issue unless you are trying to seek shelter in its den.

Cwillfly wrote:So I bought this rifle when I was flying in Tanzania for use on a cape buffalo hunt. Its a Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 African / Super Grade in .458 Win Mag. Express sights only.

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That is a beautiful gun. I'm not generally sensitive to recoil but something tells me I'd change my tune if I shot that a few times.

Cwillfly wrote:So I bought this rifle when I was flying in Tanzania for use on a cape buffalo hunt. Its a Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 African / Super Grade in .458 Win Mag. Express sights only.

[/img

I spent time in the far-eastern provinces of India with a rogue elephant hunter named Dinesh Chowdary who carried the same rifle. It's a hell of an impressive rifle, but believe it or not he was actually jealous that I had the same rifle chambered in 30-06 back home in Idaho. He wasn't a large man by any physical measure, and I suspect he would have enjoyed owning a rifle that didn't batter him quite so enthusiastically.

Super-interesting person. He impressed on me just how bad it is to have an elephant angry with you...makes living around grizzly bears seem pretty tame by comparison, as they can't flatten a cement building to get at the people hiding inside.