AEROPOD wrote:There's a ton of wagons out there that NEED a wreck, just so they have a chance at getting rebuilt by someone who is competent. If they documented the work well, I'd go have a look. I'm not scared of damage history, I'm scared of shit maintenance.

I had to laugh at this-- the sad thing is that it's very true!

rocket wrote:........Just buy something, anything, kick that paralysis by analysis in the ass! .......It’s life, live it!

What he said.
"Perfect" is the enemy of "good enough".
And this applies to after you buy one too.

Zzz wrote:But what about the repairs?

What you want an on topic answer?!?!

They have practically all been wrecked at some point. I'd rather have a wagon with recent damage history that's been repaired properly than one with "no damage history" that was probably just repaired in a barn somewhere.

rocket wrote:........Just buy something, anything, kick that paralysis by analysis in the ass! .......It’s life, live it!

Let's do something, even if it's wrong! (or so we used to say in college) I enjoy spending other people's money too.

Anyway, about those repairs...anybody else have spar splices?

SmokeyTheBear wrote:They have practically all been wrecked at some point.

Everybody says this, but it's not all equal, and not a binary state. Imagine the myriad permutations of damage severity + mechanic ability. We like to rock ourselves to sleep at night by believing there is a standard (AC 43.13b, Cessna manuals) but I know enough IAs that tell me horror stories of repairs-by-crackhead that I'm not experienced enough to spot with my own flashlight or borescope. Maybe that stuff that only a few of us are neurotic enough to agonize over.

Zzz wrote:

SmokeyTheBear wrote:They have practically all been wrecked at some point.

Everybody says this, but it's not all equal, and not a binary state. Imagine the myriad permutations of damage severity + mechanic ability. We like to rock ourselves to sleep at night by believing there is a standard (AC 43.13b, Cessna manuals) but I know enough IAs that tell me horror stories of repairs-by-crackhead that I'm not experienced enough to spot with my own flashlight or borescope. Maybe that stuff that only a few of us are neurotic enough to agonize over.

Well... I assume you're not going to buy a 300k airplane without a prebuy right? RIGHT? That should help identify if it was repaired correctly or not. Obviously there is a beautiful spectrum of aircraft damage.... but the fact remains that inflight structural failures of Cessna 100 series are really rare, and that's including all the poorly repaired ones!

If its been flying, measures straight, passes inspection, and flies good... It probably is good?

Zzz wrote:

SmokeyTheBear wrote:They have practically all been wrecked at some point.

Everybody says this, but it's not all equal, and not a binary state. Imagine the myriad permutations of damage severity + mechanic ability. We like to rock ourselves to sleep at night by believing there is a standard (AC 43.13b, Cessna manuals) but I know enough IAs that tell me horror stories of repairs-by-crackhead that I'm not experienced enough to spot with my own flashlight or borescope. Maybe that stuff that only a few of us are neurotic enough to agonize over.

I used to find that crap fairly regularly 25 years ago, used to hang them in my wall of shame… I think it was the era, when pilots didn’t care what kind of hack as long as it was cheap. Don’t see it that anymore up here in AK.

Saw somewere recently tgat it wasn’t the airframe or engine but the pilot responsible for all the trauma anyway, I’ve never seen a spam can NYSB report that found cause to be a previous non standard repair as primary cause, it’s always CFIT or Pilot lost directional controll

I rebuilt a set of 206 wings, twice, I told the operator if they bent them a third time they were scrap…

Rocket

Zzz wrote:

rocket wrote:........Just buy something, anything, kick that paralysis by analysis in the ass! .......It’s life, live it!

Let's do something, even if it's wrong! (or so we used to say in college) I enjoy spending other people's money too.

Anyway, about those repairs...anybody else have spar splices?

There’s a 170B with a form 337 spar repair at the strut attatch with my name on it… to be honest I wouldn’t do it again but it’s all nice 100 series SRM/43.13 work, button head rivets on the LE skin and all. Spliced the door post skin etc. Had a ponk gear box and ripped the whole she-bang out in one ugly mess. Was my first big airplane sheat metal project out here. I used to see her every other year or so on the PAKN ramp but not in a few years now.

Rocket

Zzz wrote:
Anyway, about those repairs...anybody else have spar splices?

I guess everyone with WingX wing extensions does. And they get a gross weight increase.

Sorry, just stirring the pot.

Oregon180 wrote:

Zzz wrote:
Anyway, about those repairs...anybody else have spar splices?

I guess everyone with WingX wing extensions does. And they get a gross weight increase.

Sorry, just stirring the pot.

Haha touché.

Okay, let me rephrase…anyone with splices at station 60 near the tank bay.

rocket wrote:

Zzz wrote:

rocket wrote:........Just buy something, anything, kick that paralysis by analysis in the ass! .......It’s life, live it!

Let's do something, even if it's wrong! (or so we used to say in college) I enjoy spending other people's money too.

Anyway, about those repairs...anybody else have spar splices?

There’s a 170B with a form 337 spar repair at the strut attatch with my name on it… to be honest I wouldn’t do it again but it’s all nice 100 series SRM/43.13 work, button head rivets on the LE skin and all. Spliced the door post skin etc. Had a ponk gear box and ripped the whole she-bang out in one ugly mess. Was my first big airplane sheat metal project out here. I used to see her every other year or so on the PAKN ramp but not in a few years now.

Rocket

I helped on a Piper Pacer spar splice per the Piper repair manual procedure with my unnamed IA friend. 36 rivets spanning the web. Seemed beefy enough but it was pretty far outboard.

AEROPOD wrote:There's a ton of wagons out there that NEED a wreck, just so they have a chance at getting rebuilt by someone who is competent. If they documented the work well, I'd go have a look. I'm not scared of damage history, I'm scared of shit maintenance.

Thankfully, i bent my old 172 tailwheel conversion years ago. the tear down was revealing to say the least. main gear mount bolts through the wrong holes, wallowed out holes to line up the gear holes.

Well documented, correct repairs did not affect the resale. Not to mention the relief of finding and fixing a potential disaster.

If & when you find an airplane for sale that you think *just might* be a good one....
why not get ahold of Bigrenna to inspect it?
Deep-dive surveys seem to be something he specializes in.
It might cost you a pretty penny, but you wouldn't have to agonize over a bunch of what-if's.
And you'd end up with a good one, or at the very least you'd know where the warts are.

As others have said, a good pre-buy is the answer to a lot of your questions. I prefer a pre-buy done as an annual inspection, that way, the "inspector" has a little more skin in the game and we both understand what the drill is.

A spar splice inboard of the strut attach on a Cessna would be a non starter for me. That's an ugly one to repair, and frankly, you'd be better off finding a new wing.

I would argue that there are Skywagons out there that haven't experienced "Major damage", whatever that is. Wings, gearbox, tail feathers and engine......it isn't rocket science, IF you know what you're looking at. And, if it was repaired right, who cares?

Zzz wrote:Anyway, about those repairs...anybody else have spar splices?

I've installed a Cessna Service Kit that is a spar splice. I think I have another one on hand in the shop in case I have to do another one.

I'd be curious about a splice at station 60. Not saying whether it is good or bad, but I'd want to learn more about it.