My (PA-22) plane has a sticker that was put on by a previous owner. I want to take it off. This is more of a academic question... but obviously this changes the weight of the rudder aft of the hinge line by some miniscule amount. Got me thinking.

Is the Pacer/Tri-Pacer rudder balanced by weight, or just aerodynamically, and if so how big of a sticker would it take to throw the balance off where flutter could be a concern?

I wouldn't worry about it. Here's another question I've thought about... If my tail feathers are covered in cow shit do they need to be rebalanced? Seemed to fly just fine.

robw56 wrote:I wouldn't worry about it. Here's another question I've thought about... If my tail feathers are covered in cow shit do they need to be rebalanced? Seemed to fly just fine.

Thats an awesome answer... No disrespect Scott just a funny answer to a question that left me scratching my head.

AKT

Yeah I know it is a silly question. Primarily wondering if the PA-20/22 rudder is balanced by weight. Does not appear to be but I'm no expert.

I keep my 182 at my ranch. Now and then I take off through some fresh cow shit. It dries pretty hard by the time I get to my destinations. I do not notice any performance change with the mini vortex generators.

Tim

I've never found a requirement to balance piper rag wing control surfaces, and there's no means to balance them if there was.

Cessna and deHavilland surfaces I've worked on have removable weights and detailed instructions on how to measure the balance.

It's been my experience that if control surfaces on these small airplanes start out close to the middle of the balance range then no amount of paint will take them out. That's why it's important to balance them before painting so you don't have to futz around adding/removing weights after they're nice and shiny.

Don't worry about stickers on your piper.

This kind of question made me think about the pilot's relationship with the aircraft. There are no dumb questions I guess, but seriously; most GA aircraft are pretty simple devices and the Pacer is certainly one of the less sophisticated. Your rudder is influenced by all kinds of changing forces like gross weight, speed, wind direction, If the rudder were this sensitive to balanced operation, then a change in wind direction or speed would negate any advantage to balance within the tolerance of the additional mass of a decal. I can't speak for the Tripacer, but the pacer is a plane that requires real rudder input to coordinate turns and to unlike the Cherokee which can be flown with very little rudder inputs

Picture you in your pacer in a deep forward slip on approach and then transitioning to align with the runway. I live in a particularly windy location so I usually have to kick the pedals around a little as the wheels get closer to the ground. The changing forces and influences on your rudder make the decal pretty insignificant. I guess being able to identify this is the nature of the stick and rudder skills which I consider to be the pilot's relationship to the aircraft.

Although, 737s and a320s have had casualties attributed to rudder control systems and rudder inputs (full deflection in wake turbulence perhaps) the scale and complexity are far beyond the hardware store parts that make up the rudder control on a short wing Piper.

I would be more worried about damaging the fabric and paint/dope finish removing the decal

FWIW, your local auto glass place is likely to have a spray on concoction that easily removes decals. Around here, they often have to deal with emission stickers which are required items on the windshields (ticket offense if it's required but isn't there), so they need to transfer them from the old cracked windshield to the new one.

Cary

As I understand it, one of the main reasons for mass-balanced control surfaces on light planes is to mitigate flutter at higher speeds. So if this plane had a balanced rudder, then it wouldn't be sensitive to a few ounces, but might be sensitive to a pound. For comparison, the 4-place Bearhawk and Bearhawk Patrol both have mass-balanced elevators and ailerons, (but not rudders- I think that is because the hinge line is parallel to lift in coordinated flight, unlike the others). When Bob the designer drew up the LSA version, he omitted the mass balance on the elevators, in part because he had to limit the Vne based on the LSA rule limitations anyway. At the slower speed, flutter was not a concern, and he saved several pounds as a result. So pilots accustomed to flying fast with heavy fecal matter on the elevator may want to be sure that it isn't too sticky, so that it will self-jettison as speed increases in a dive towards Vne.

Saw a pretty bent-up PA-20 the other day, rudder structure was exposed. It didn't obviously have any mass-balance installed in the rudder horn.

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure the only balanced control surface on a Pacer is the elevator. Best answer will likely come from the Short Wing Pipers.orgers