A few days ago a buddy and I picked up a local ramp mummy 180 on floats. After a day in the hangar tearing out what was left of the interior and pulling all the covers we had the IA come take a look at it. There were surprisingly few squawks that will take more and a few hours to take care of. The biggest issue is the engine. 0470R that has 1117 hrs on it, but one low cylinder (at last annual in 09 it was 50). When we checked it out it may as well have been a turbine. Only one cylinder had enough compression to feel with my finger over the plug hole. We soaked the cylinders in MMO for a few days then put fresh oil in it and fired it up. It took less than a minute for all cylinders to catch and she smoothed right out. After warming up the prop cycled fine and it will turn up 2500 on the ground tied down. The issue now is that it "feels" tight to the mechanic when turns the prop by hand and its tighter when hot versus cold. I did not have him do a compression check on it after we ran it a few times on the ground. I had to leave to go back to work for 2 weeks so I was planning on running it more when I got home and seeing what happens. At this point, it would take a 5 minute flight from the airport to the lake my buddies hangar is on, or pulling the wings off and trailering it to the hangar after getting wide load permits etc.

How long should an engine be ran before sending the oil in for analysis?

I have never sent oil in before so where are you sending your oil to and what is the cost?

Anyone have any 180 or 185 gear legs laying around you want to sell? The plane came with floats only.

Looking forwards to a winter of tinkering with the old gal and getting her ready for float flying in the spring.

Very cool! Sounds like a fun winter ahead and an even funner summer. Good find!

Sounds like you are having some good luck in the resurrection of that neglected bird.

I am hoping the folks that are dismantling the Anatov A-2 at Harvey Field (S43) have equally good luck. That poor plane has been sitting for at least five years and the starlings have made it into a bird condo and something hit the rudder and bent the heck out of it.

I have heard those Russian radials are close to immortal; so, maybe the new owner will get 'er running.

I rode in the A-2 many years ago and while it is like riding in a railroad boxcar (forget hearing the person next to you), it just floated off the ground in what seemed to be about three plane lengths. Other than having to be in the experimental category it would be a fantastic jump plane.

TD

I use Blackstone Labs oil analysis. Go to their web site and fill out the form and they will send you a free sampling kit and box to send in. Cost is about 25 bucks for the analysis. Unless your engine has chrome cylinders, I would be willing to bet that your looking at a top overhaul. That tightness is probably rust that the rings have munched off the walls. Have you bore scoped it? If there is rust in the cylinders, expect the compression to start going downhill pretty quick as the rings don't have a smooth surface to seal to. Sitting out in the salt air and long winters on the inlet takes its toll pretty quick when an engine isn't pickled prior to storage. Chrome cylinders are the only way to go for a recreational seaplane that sits for periods of time without use because they don't rust. Another thing to check is the cam and lifters. That is most easily done by pulling a jug to get a real good look. -Just went through this myself, so speaking from firsthand experience.-your results may vary......Good Luck and if you have to go through the motor, at least you will know what you have and a piece of mind when crossing those long stretches of rough water or craggy peaks.

Thanks RH! We looked in the cylinders with the borescope and did not see any rust, hence the decision to try and fire it up. I dont mind the top OH, or for that matter a complete OH. I was hoping to get away with flying her for a few hundred hours before a major, but as you said, peace of mind over the rocks is priceless! I will talk to the folks you mentioned and see what they say about an oil analysis after only a couple hours or an hour of running on the ground. Or just send the IA back over to the plane and have him pull a jug and see whats up.

Thanks for the help!

Congrats Leni! Let the fun and pocket emptying begin!

Most of the time oil analysis is most valuable in spotting trends rather than a one time test. I think if I were in your shoes I would take a sample now, ( be sure it is right after running with hot oil ) and then again after a few more hours, say twenty hours or so. this will show if there is a severe problem now and will show a developing problem coming up. You may find for instance that iron levels may be quite high now but level off or even decline as the engine wears in again. Or you may find that chrome levels start low and ramp up quickly meaning possibly failing bearings.

Hope you get lucky and have a good power plant.

Oil analysis is most valuable for trend.

I would not do extensive ground runs.....if you do, you'll likely wind up overhauling it anyway. If possible, fly it. Take off and stay overhead the airport if you're worried about it. That's common when breaking in an engine. Fly it for an hour then change oil, send sample. Fly it again, same, same. If you get comfortable with it use it.

Long ground runs aren't good, unless you can assure adequate cooling, and that's tough. If you really don't trust it, tear it down, and you'll feel better.

Those engines work pretty hard, so I'd treat it right.

MTV

I would be looking at those cylinders very close. Pulling a set of jugs for a new hone job and rings is not that hard and being able to inspect the cam shaft lobes and followers for rust and wear adds immeasurable confidence to the pilot. Hey congratulations on the plane. : )

akavidflyer wrote:How long should an engine be ran before sending the oil in for analysis?

I have never sent oil in before so where are you sending your oil to and what is the cost?

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Congrats on the find and willing save the plane from certian death....

As for Oil Analysis..

Just about every Caterpiller dealer has an in house oil analysis lab. Most larger John Deere and Case/IH dealers do to.. Average cost is in the 12-14 dollar range and most can get you results the same day...

Hint............. Don't tell them it is a plane..... say it is some ground support equipment...

Buck,

That is what I am leaning towards right now. Have the mechanic pull the jugs and look in there while I am at work so hopefully I can make the short flight to the hangar next week when I get home. I am pretty confident that she will hold together long enough for a 10 minute flight, but boy would it piss me off to loose it on take off and wad up a good airframe just cause I didn't want to pull the wings off and trailer it to the hangar.

I would much rather to a top on it and get some more hours out of the old girl than have to put a new engine on it right away, but as I said before, for the price I got it for, a new engine would still make this a cheap 180.

I'll repeat it as well, without a trend oil analysis is not very useful. Reality, if you pull the jugs, have the mechanic re-hone them and put new rings in. Not very expensive. You can also have him re-grind the seats and valves. You will find most exhaust valves and guides with 100LL, look nasty after 1100 hours, so you may want to replace them. Oh, then you have a top end. The present formulation of 100LL makes getting much beyond 1,000 hrs out of a top end on larger engines optimistic. So you are not wasting money doing it.

After you do the top end, break in the cylinders, then do oil analysis for a few cycles to see what you lower end is up to.

Yes with 1100 hours you might as well get it over with now as opposed to later and fly knowing what you have, and feeling good about it. They are really great planes. I wish I had one on floats.

Thanks for the replies guys. Do any of you have any favorite suppliers that seem to have better prices or customer service than others? I know where to get all the good parts for my experimental, but the certified world is one I swore I wouldn't step into again, yet here I am.

Any of you guys that have been modding and updating your planes have any serviceable parts laying around the hangar that you want to sell for a reasonable price?

Items I am looking for...

Landing gear 180 or 185
wheels (8.50's or bigger), brakes etc.

Tail wheel

Interior panels that still have some life left in them, mine are beyond gone.

Yes, I could buy all new, but this is a bush plane, this means blood, guts and mud will be inside it at various times from various hunting and fishing trips. I have no desire to plush it out just to get the sweet new interior bloody and muddy and not be able to wipe it out easily LOL

Thanks

Having recovered airplanes for 40 years plus , flying out is the easiest option - if possible. I recovered everything from Cubs to medium twins over the years . If engine will run reliably and wings / airframe are reasonably good I'd fly. Taking wings and tail off is doable but a pain . Floats could be a problem ¿ if lake is froze over or floats are damage.

quick update. Have put 7 hrs on it this week! engine is smooth and yesterday I flew it 100 miles with only a push on the rudder here and there to hold the heading due to winds. she is rigged perfectly and fly's awesome! Going to be a fun project to restore her to her former glory over the winter!

oil has been sent out to start a baseline to see what the ole engine is up to. As easily as it starts and as smooth as it runs I am thinking its going to have some life left in it! Took a 10,000 hr 180 driver up a few days ago and let him play with it and he thinks the same. Flys beautiful and just needs a little face lift!

Sending you a PM on the gear, so watch for that. Also, what size stinger, 7/8" or 1-1/8"?

-DP

I have a 7/8 stinger. Also have a an ABW wide TW fork and head.

Greg-

Thanks for Denalipilot we now have gear and wheels/brakes. We picked up his TW too but it is for a 1 1/8" tail spring, ours is currently a 7/8" tail spring. Anyone have part numbers or can tell me what all I need to change to put the 1 1/8" tail spring on, and the best place to find the parts?

Thanks to all who have PMed me for parts so far! We are alot closer to having some fun on ski's this winter than we were a week ago LOL.