8GCBC, I'm glad to have your and everyone elses opinion but yeah I'm going to do what I think will suite me best after doing research. That research includes getting the opinions of others.

I caught myself explaining why I am looking for a different option other than the Lyc O360 so the statement above about staying on track was as much for me as for anyone else.

Glad you do not mind "to much" of my "thread drift"! Again, great thread! Thank you.

here is an article on the fuel injection for the IO-360

http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/181624- ... directed=1

there are numerous threads on the Cessna 170 site for IO-360 upgrades.

Thanks Waterboy, good info in that article and on the 170 site.

whee wrote:Lyc O540-L 387lbs dry ( I picked the lightest one because I don't know which one is most common on the BH)

I would suggest assuming roughly 400 dry, seems like the slightly heavier models are most common. Not that it's top of your list.

Whee, Here's an option if you can find an engine without the fuel injection and mags, will save you a bunch of money.
Go look at all the pages on the site!!
http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html
I'm setting up 2 engines with this right now, a 0-320 and a 0-360, Plan on using it also when I'm ready on the Franklin 220.

I don't want to drift you too bad, but I've often wondered about using MS on an experimental engine. I think digital EFI with digital spark timing would really bring efficiency into the game and welcome the "dinosaurs" into the current century.

It'd take a little fab work with the fuel rails and mounting the injectors, as well as where the crank signal would come from though.

http://www.msextra.com/feature-xref.html

I have used the SDS system on a couple of hovercraft with Subaru motors and I used it on our Landrover powered Bearhawk. Literally logged thousands of hrs and no glitches. They make a kit for lyc's and continentals. I think an IO-360 conti. with and SDS complete system with electronic injection and electronic ignition would work very nice in a Bearhawk.
KenW
ps. but what do I know, I think water cooled is better than air cooled anytime.

What's the major argument against fuel injection for backcountry ops?

Weight? Complication? Hot starts? Running down the battery? Expense? Voodoo?

soyAnarchisto wrote:What's the major argument against fuel injection for backcountry ops?

Weight? Complication? Hot starts? Running down the battery? Expense? Voodoo?

I think the same as running an alternator instead of a Generator??

There is an AD for crankshaft replacement at overhaul on IO-360's with a VAR crankshaft. That could get expensive. Cylinders look to be more expensive than average and only available from Continental.

I would love to put one of these in my 170, but too expensive, I think the Lycoming O-360 would be more economical to operate. I can't afford that either.

Here is some more info on IO-360's from the swift guys
http://www.saginawwings.com/monty-answerman/io360p1.htm

Good luck in your search Whee.

I don't think arguing that a FI engine isn't as good for back country is valid. Cessna 185's, 206's, 207's have been working fine for years and years in the back countries all around the world. They work on floats, and that's about as back country as it gets. And while on the subject, what about all the turbine back country airplanes? Sure aren't going to hand prop those.

I have some time behind both the Lycoming 4 cylinder FI and the Continental. The Continental is really smooth. I had a hell of a time learning how to hot start the Lycoming, but it was just not knowing the proper technique. It's a fine engine too.

Interesting thread. I asked Bob about using an IO-360 or even an O-300 on my Patrol due to the cost and how wonderfully smooth running those smaller Continental 6's are. Unfortunately he said the length and weight would make it too nose heavy.

As for accessories, one of the joys of going with an experimental is huge selection of engine accessories available. For example, I ended up getting an O-320 H2AD with no accessories included for my Patrol. Lets see, over $3,000 for an overhauled dual mag that nobody seems to like. Or $2800 for a modern dual electronic ignition system with variable timing, easier starting, no moving parts and cheaper plugs. Tough decision.

gbflyer wrote:I don't think arguing that a FI engine isn't as good for back country is valid.

+1 from me,

Provided you can prime the engine (carry a teeny-tiny spare 12V battery) then I can see no disadvantage at all.

Battson wrote:

gbflyer wrote:I don't think arguing that a FI engine isn't as good for back country is valid.

+1 from me,

Provided you can prime the engine (carry a teeny-tiny spare 12V battery) then I can see no disadvantage at all.

Just curious... How many hours do you have behind xxx540 engines?

have had it for 10 years... fly Idaho every year... never had a hot start problem... runs smooth, and economical... have gotten it down to 7.5 GPH on the way home from Idaho at 8500 Ft... hauls anything I put in it but then it's a Maule....the 195 HP models were in many of the Hawk XP's... I have a 76 inch prop and lust aflter the 80 inch McCauley... but the 76 gets me in and out of anywhere I have wanted to go....

I have about 30 hours behind the continental io 360 in a skyhawk xp - even as a noob I found the hot starts to be a non-issue but admittedly that's not a lot of time. I have another 140 hours behind fuel injected lycomings, both 235 and 360s. Other people struggle w/ hot and cold starts - but I think it's because they don't pay attention to procedures or how the engines work.

Of course now I hand prop a carbed C85 - I do have to admit I'm way more comfortable that she will start every time I lay my hands on her.

If having a dead battery is such a fear with an injected engine, then why not install a back-up battery? With the new Lithium batteries ( http://aerovoltz.net/en/aervoltz-4-cell-lithium-battery ) it would add less than a pound. Wire it so it charges when the engine is running, but with a diode inline to prevent it from discharging. Add a bypass switch to run the booster pump if the main battery is dead. Heck, for 3 or 4 pounds you could add one big enough to crank the engine!

Since I'm planning to run dual electronic ignition this is exactly what I plan to do with my ignition circuit. If I end up with a dead battery in the middle of nowhere, I can flip a switch and hand prop it. Or if the alternator craps out a thousand miles from nowhere, I have that much more reserve power to keep the fan turning till I get back to civilization.

Phil
Electrical Engineer.

Bear_Builder wrote:If having a dead battery is such a fear with an injected engine, then why not install a back-up battery? With the new Lithium batteries ( http://aerovoltz.net/en/aervoltz-4-cell-lithium-battery ) it would add less than a pound. Wire it so it charges when the engine is running, but with a diode inline to prevent it from discharging. Add a bypass switch to run the booster pump if the main battery is dead. Heck, for 3 or 4 pounds you could add one big enough to crank the engine!

Since I'm planning to run dual electronic ignition this is exactly what I plan to do with my ignition circuit. If I end up with a dead battery in the middle of nowhere, I can flip a switch and hand prop it. Or if the alternator craps out a thousand miles from nowhere, I have that much more reserve power to keep the fan turning till I get back to civilization.

Phil
Electrical Engineer.

How bout we leave the magnetos and mechanical fuel ejection and install larger fuel lines that feed the positive displacement engine driven fuel pump so enough head is provided by gravity that no boost pumps are required. No need for a backup battery or any battery for that matter.

Jon
Mechanical Engineer

Sorry, couldn't resist

These sound like a good engine and seems like one would fit my needs nicely.

The new small battery technology is awesome. We put an EarthX in the Rans. Weighs three pounds and spins that engine like it's nothing. Anyone who's been around a Rotax 912 knows that takes some umph!

Justin
Dump Truck Engineer