Trying to dig up some info on the IO-360. I'm getting the cart way ahead of the horse but I'm thinking it might work for me on a Bearhawk.

I like the idea of fuel injection, with 8.5:1 compression it could run mogas if I can figure a way around the vapor lock issue, 82" C203 prop is approved for it and seems to be readily available used off O470 182s.

Any issues or special needs for this engine? Think I heard something about hot start issues?

Friend had one, great engine.

* What is your background with aircraft engines?

* Have you worked on or overhauled any models so far?

* What interests you in a Continental?

Just want to understand your needs and abilities?

Whee,

Great Engine....but yes you are correct about the assumption of "Hot Starts". That's my experience anyway. But....once you get the hang of it....starts every time perfectly.

Many hours in a Beechcraft with an IO-360. On the "Hot Start"....use a second or two of the fuel boost pump with mixture full rich...then move the mixture to "idle cut off" before hitting the starter. Once running slowing advance the mixture to full rich. Works every time.


Cheers
Macdon221

8GCBC wrote:* What is your background with aircraft engines?

* Have you worked on or overhauled any models so far?

* What interests you in a Continental?

Just want to understand your needs and abilities?

Limited background. 350hrs behind a C85 that I was involved in rebuilding.

I guess that since a C85 was my first engine I am partial to continental. The 30hrs I have behind a Lyc O360 were fine but just want something different. Also, it seems that Conti handles sitting idle better than Lyc. Maybe not true but I tend to only fly maybe once a month in the winter due to my snowmobiling habit so some sitting is going to happen.

I felt that the 180hp lyc O360 was sufficient for me in a Bearhawk and I don't want the extra weight of a 540. Some additional weight up front would be okay for cg reasons when the baggage compartment is loaded up. Seems the TCM IO360 lies in the middle weight wise between the Lyc 360 and 540. The extra 30hp wouldn't hurt and for whatever reason I'm partial to mccauley props which are available for the TCM IO360.

I want to run mogas and from what I can tell the reason the IO360 powered maule can't run mogas is because the fuel gets too hot at the engine driven fuel pump causing a vapor lock risk. I figure there is a way that can be solved.

Sounds like the hot start issue isn't really an issue once you learn the procedure.

Whee,

Thanks dude. I see your point.

My opinion with Continentals, in general, is they are like Rockwell Aero Commanders... Great during a certain period during the transition of engineering post World War II to "modern" GA. But, the complexity never went away. Lycoming 0360 has so much more support and hours behind them. It is the most popular selling carbureted recip in the world right now, from what I was told. Fuel injection and backcountry do not mix in my opinion.

I had worked on several Continentals over the years and became frustrated with the designs. I am a Lycoming O360 guy for the foreseeable future.

Opinion. Heavily skewed.

I have a couple hundred hours behind an IO-360 in a Mooney 231. The only problem I regularly encountered was that it ran pretty hot, something that may be as much associated with the tight cowling of the Mooney as anything, plus the turbo-charging, which creates a lot of heat. My guess is that you'd probably not want to use one with a turbo-charger, as much for longevity purposes as any--I was told by several different mechanics that the turboed versions normally required a top overhaul well before TBO, but I didn't fly it long enough to find that out.

I also never had any particular hot start problems, using essentially what macdon said. Basically that floods it, and then unfloods it, and it seems to work pretty consistently.

Cary

The hot start issue is a non-issue. Its like someone saying they like to shoot a .22 because a 30.06 kicks too hard! The continental 360 is hands down the smoothest running piston engine ive ever seen. Look for scrapped senecas and skymasters to find a used one

True.. The xx360 Continentals have been and will be the smoothest air cooled aircraft engines ever. It is actually, in my opinion (no formal research), smoother than the water cooled experimental auto conversions. Controversy not intended! Although the Subarus sound pretty good.

You guys feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but when I was looking into planes with IO-360s, I was told that due to the complexity of the engine, that overhauls are quite pricey compared to a lot of other engines out there.
Have you ever thought of looking into the Lycoming IO-390? I've heard great things about them from some of the guys running them in the Tundra and a few other aircraft...

Whats so complex about it? Its just like every other air cooled 1940s technology airplane engine out there. I too would rather have the 390, two less cylinders, a lot less weight and the same horsepower but the cost to aquire is much higher.

A1Skinner wrote:You guys feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but when I was looking into planes with IO-360s, I was told that due to the complexity of the engine, that overhauls are quite pricey compared to a lot of other engines out there.
Have you ever thought of looking into the Lycoming IO-390? I've heard great things about them from some of the guys running them in the Tundra and a few other aircraft...

The very first aircraft to have the first certified IO-390 is an 8GCBC! ACA rocks! But, MoGas maybe a critical issue. Backcountry=MoGas for many people.

Jeredp wrote:Whats so complex about it? Its just like every other air cooled 1940s technology airplane engine out there. I too would rather have the 390, two less cylinders, a lot less weight and the same horsepower but the cost to aquire is much higher.

The accessories for example.

Not sure Jered, just what I was told by mechanics. 8GCBC, I agree, ACA does rock. If they made a 4 place scout I'd have been all over it instead of a 180. I do understand the importance of mogas, as thats what I run. Rumor has it that guys are running it in their tundras with electric ignition. If that was all true, it would make for a very nice engine, cost aside.

Smart ignition timing and integrated instruments is the key for MoGas. Maybe we will see Oxygen sensors one day on the exhaust?

Still would not trade my O360 it has the comfort factor! She easy to work on!

I had an IO360 210 horsepower Maule and loved it. I could run it back to under 9 GPH or push in the money knob and smoke right along. That's my favorite motor out of any I've flown.
I really do wonder about the MoGas option though. I believe that there is a 190 HP version of the Conntinental IO 360 and wonder if maybe that's a lower compression motor? All in all though, I'd suggest reading Petersons stuff on MoGas research. I would tend to go with their conclusions even in an expirimental application.

IO 360 is a great engine. TBO is kinda low. Depending on which mags you have, no more "complex" than any other of these Fred Flintstone engines.

I'd do a lot of research before I tried running one on Mogadishu, though. You're at serious density altitude, and that, coupled with FI MAY be a bad combination. Maybe.

8 GCBC...the O 390 or IO 390 is orders of magnitude more expensive than a good Continental IO 360. Not everyone is made from $$$.

MTV

A1Skinner wrote:You guys feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but when I was looking into planes with IO-360s, I was told that due to the complexity of the engine, that overhauls are quite pricey compared to a lot of other engines out there.
Have you ever thought of looking into the Lycoming IO-390? I've heard great things about them from some of the guys running them in the Tundra and a few other aircraft...

Now that you mention it I recall hearing that overhauls are expensive also. May have to see if there is any truth to that.

I looked at the OI390 but not seriously. It isn't that I want more hp but that I want an option other than a 4-cylinder Lyc

Jeredp wrote:Whats so complex about it? Its just like every other air cooled 1940s technology airplane engine out there. I too would rather have the 390, two less cylinders, a lot less weight and the same horsepower but the cost to aquire is much higher.

I wonder what is so complex also; how can the accessories be complex?

For the way I want to use the BH the extra weight on the nose is good. I couldn't load the 180hp BH to full gross because CG would get too far aft, much like the 180hp maules. I was actually looking for a HEAVIER prop to hang on the nose to help with CG.

We're getting off track here, I don't want this thread to be about why I don't want a Lyc O360; I want it to be about the nuances of the TCM IO-360.

So:
Hot start is a non issue
Overhaul might be expensive
Smooth running engine
Can use a +80" Mac prop (this is something I want)
Heavier (but maybe not a bad thing)
Complex???

How do TCMs and Lycs dry weights compare? ie Lyc include accessories and TCM does not?

TCM IO360-C 331.25lbs dry
Lyc O360-AIA 258lbs dry
Lyc O540-L 387lbs dry ( I picked the lightest one because I don't know which one is most common on the BH)

flyingzebra wrote:I had an IO360 210 horsepower Maule and loved it. I could run it back to under 9 GPH or push in the money knob and smoke right along. That's my favorite motor out of any I've flown.
I really do wonder about the MoGas option though. I believe that there is a 190 HP version of the Conntinental IO 360 and wonder if maybe that's a lower compression motor? All in all though, I'd suggest reading Petersons stuff on MoGas research. I would tend to go with their conclusions even in an expirimental application.

The 195hp versions just have a lower max rpm, same compression ratio.

I looked into the mogas some and from what I found on the web it was the FI configuration that caused issues with mogas, specifically the engine driven fuel pump. When Peterson was trying to get a mogas STC that is the issue he ran into, never actually had vapor lock take place but the risk was too high. I haven't called Peterson to verify this but I will if I decide to go down that road. If that really is the case then I think it is an issue that can be solved without too much hassle.

Whee,

Good thread. It rekindle some good points about Continentals. And I learned a few ideas. I just got done with a cylinder change on a IO470 and it took a little longer than I expected. Was my fault, lost a little money during the job. A ring broke sliding the jug on to the case. A bozo no no.

Everybody has a location, budget, and mission that is different. Exploiting the resources that are available is the key. Following some dudes advice on the internet (Me for example), who does not really even know you is wrong and is a trend that is dangerous (opinion). I do not expect anyone to buy a Lycoming new or used because it got me off. Obviously people adore their Continentals in the environment they have. I respect that more than any brand loyalty. As we say in surfing "The guy who has the most fun wins!". Having fun reasearching your needs is a big part of the intellectual "fun" of flying for me. Thank you for letting me hang in your thread!