I've come to a place in my building process where the blockage for several tasks has come down to having upholstered seats.

Why? Geometry and ergonomics. Rigging the control cables for the rudder pedals and elevators require establishing a neutral stick and pedal position. These things kinda depend on the position of my seat and the vector my legs down to the pedals. Granted, the aircraft should be flyable by pilots of all shapes and sizes but the perfect position is for me.

So, I'm focused on upholstery. First step is the seat pan and back, which after a failed idea involving webbing and grommet eyelets, I've resolved to just use good old .023 aluminum riveted to my seat frame.

Next, is a triple stack of memory foam, firmest at the bottom, medium in the middle, and softest on top for my buttcheeks. That's pretty par for the course nowadays.

What I'm here to ask about is slip cover material. I'm not a big leather guy. I don't want a plush fabric that can easily get stained or matted with the drippings of my PBJ sandwich. One local auto upholsterer I talked to mentioned ballistic nylon, e.g. Cordura like many backpacks and rugged outdoor soft gear is made from these days. I really like that idea, but... you could never do that in a certified aircraft. The material likely has no burn cert. I can understand needing that in say... interior near the firewall, but in a seat? If your seat is in danger of ignition from fire, aren't you pooched anyway?

My favorite seat styles of of course from my buddies at CubCrafters (see below.) I think they are built by Oregon Aero, which is some closely guarded trade secret as to what they are. I don't see myself popping for the $2,000+ custom upholstery from them.

I'm here to seek ideas and suggestions. Thanks!

I would just carve up the memory foam to the shapes and sizes you want and put pillow cases over them for now so you can finish rigging your controls. As far as cover material, totally up to you. I'd go visit some upholstery shops and tell them what you're looking for in the fabric. Stain resistance, colors etc. I'd say it's for a dune buggy though. Telling folks that things are for airplanes invites a lot of nervous questions. If you get the memory foam the right size and shape then just have the upholstery shop sew the fabric on for you. They'll do just as good as OA.

Look into your local regulations, does the FAA require fireproof standards be met or test certificates? Do they require aviation grade materials in experimentals? Not all countries do, but some do.

Boats fabrics suffer from many of the same problems as aircraft, fire risks, the same rough treatment from passengers, and spend lots of time outside in the sun. So a marine upholsterer will have some good options at non-aviation prices, some quite light-weight. Some will even come with fire test certificates.

In terms of your specific aircraft - a suggestion:
For off airport ops you will want to seat well forward much of the time, for maximum visibility over the nose. As close as your knees + instrument panel allow.
For taller guys like you and I, the angle of the Bearhawk seat combined with a forward seat position [knees high] puts all your weight on the bones of your backside. This is fine for about 90-120 minutes, then you start to get "ischial bursitis" (a pain in the ass).
I think bucket-seat type of seat pan, with a built in angle, would solve that issue. By providing more support to the forward part of the thighs and distributing weight more evenly. With the seat rolled back, so it gives that kind of support, I can fly for 4-5hrs non-stop.
Then again, I am a skinny guy. Men with more malleable posteriors may not suffer such a problem.

Zzz wrote: ....So, I'm focused on upholstery. First step is the seat pan and back, which after a failed idea involving webbing and grommet eyelets, I've resolved to just use good old .023 aluminum riveted to my seat frame. .....

That's the approach Atlee-Dodge takes with their folding jumpseats. I like the solution Bud Blanchard used on his BAS folders-- stretch some ceconite on the seat frames. Just enough give to use as-is (for a little while anyway), or add some padding & covering for those longer rides.
I second the idea of a boat upholsterer. Maybe also talk to a car upholstery place too. Neither will be cheap- but they don't have the $$ stigma that "aviation" does.

If I ever get around to building a plane in going to use Ceconite stretched over the seat frame. I haven't looked at material options much because I like leather. It's durable, hard to stain and you can climb in with wet clothes and it doesn't take forever to dry out the seat.

Battson has good points. On takeoff and landing I had the seat as far forward as my knees allowed but I couldn't sit there long because I didn't have any head room. During cruise I slid the seat back so I was comfortable. The angle of the seat didn't bother be but that is likely because the Luscombe seats make you sit with all your weight under your rump like the BH does.

Dude, could you re-use old jeans as a cheap, tough, upholstery material?

Then you could say you fly by the seat of your pants on a seat made of pants!

Also, those pockets might come in handy.

I know a couple people who used some sort of marine-grade canvas to upholster their seats. Looks very "utility" (in a good way) and appears to be pretty durable. They both used grey which pretty much goes with any color interior / exterior. I believe it's treated in some way to be water- and stain-resistant-- like a tent.

I am also soon to need seats for the same reasons. I like all the suggestions put forward and would like to add another. Oregon Aero sells un-upholstered, contoured cushions for various experimental designs. I was considering calling them and trying to determine if any of those blanks would fit with my plane's seating geometry. The blanks are in the $400 range. I came to this idea from a seat rebuild I had done on my Landcruiser: I was convinced by friends to pay the $$ to have an expert build up the cushion for the off road driving I do, and it was the best money spend on that project! Like a hiking boot that seems good in the store, all the seats seemed the same at first, but after hours off hammering off road the seat has proven its worth. Seems to me driving off road has similarities to flying in rough air.

The idea I am noodling with is to figure out if one of their blanks would work, then cover it with random fabric (I like the pillowcase idea) during the build. Last thing I do is have it locally covered as suggested by a marine or quality auto upholstery shop.

I like your ideas around the different grades of foam: my land cruiser seat has the densities similar to what you bought, along with stiffer foam on the sides and lumbar to make a bucket-like structure that keeps me centered in the bumps. Finally the upholsterer put pleats in the seat where your "ass-print" would be to allow the seat to yield where the weight is centered. Initially I thought this was a trivial step only serving aesthetics, but it turned out to be huge difference in comfort. My right seat still has the original leather that is old and stretched tight, but serviceable (stretched over the new seat cushion). Sitting in that seat for hours is less comfortable, but the foam is the same, so I concluded the pleats were the difference.

Hope this helps, also would be interested in feedback on my findings and plans if I am missing something.

-Jim

I think that the Cordura idea is just fine. Remember this is 60" wide. Make your foam base, take it to an upholstery shop with a photo of the Cub seat cushions and away you go.

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Denier-Cord ... B00I80QH3S

Memory foam is the trick to the seat. Do a image search with super cub seat oregon aero and you will see a picture of how they cut out and put pink foam under the bones in you butt. I did the same thing in my pacer an it was great. I could fly for seven hours straight and had no problems. Make sure you put a lumbar support wedge in the back section to tilt the pelvis and give lumbar support. That foam is rock hard when it is cold but will soften up in a very short time once you sit on it. The foam is heavy compared to the cheep stuff but worth it.
DENNY

Oregon180 wrote:Dude, could you re-use old jeans as a cheap, tough, upholstery material?

Then you could say you fly by the seat of your pants on a seat made of pants!

Also, those pockets might come in handy.

This is what I'm talking about. SLICK. Feels like German engineering.

FWIW, about 4 years ago I sent my pilot seat to Oregon Aero. I had them reuse the covering, which is a cloth, I think from Airtex (the seats had been recently upholstered when I bought the airplane 10 1/2 years ago), so that it would still match. The comfort level of original Cessna seats of the 60s is low enough that water-boarding would be an improvement. I had just returned from OSH, barely able to walk when I got to my hangar after some 8+ hours of flying. I couldn't justify spending almost 2 AMUs for the front seats, but a friend suggested that since most of my flying is solo with my Molly dog in the back seat, I should just do the pilot seat.

That was still a pricey bullet to bite, but it turned out to be one of the best "investments" I've made. The comfort level improved so much that an all day flight isn't a problem at all. I'm still a bit stiff getting out after 2 or 3 hours continuously, but that's my age, not the seat.

I know that one of the things all home builders tout as a benefit of building their own is that they get a better airplane for their money, which may be true. But I sure wouldn't recommend skimping on the pilot seat, to save a buck. Just my opinion.

Cary

After crossing the Pacific in a 30' sailboat (San Pedro to Kaneohe). My butt can handle more than most guys!

I am the wrong guy to ask about comfort

"... I don't need no stinking comfort, amigos.."

Cary wrote:I know that one of the things all home builders tout as a benefit of building their own is that they get a better airplane for their money, which may be true. But I sure wouldn't recommend skimping on the pilot seat, to save a buck. Just my opinion.

Well, my take on it is that I'm not sure what Oregon Aero could do for me that a skilled boat or auto upholsterer couldn't do under my direction in regard to the foam and slip cover. There's no denying OA does great work, but they do cater to a certified market where there's a premium applied to anything.

I must admit, i have no knowledge of seats or seat upholstry, though i am going to take this window of oppertunity to beg and pleade for a build thread on your beasty! If the standard of your your videos, photos and website are anything to go buy, cant wait to see your plane!

http://newspin360.com/tour/tx/airtracto ... actor502B/ Use the arrows in the bottom right corner to look at seat upholstrey. Tried to find out where they get there material from but got no response.

Zane,
There were a couple of articles about a year ago in Kitplanes Magazine on how to make your own seats. If I can find the articles I can forward them to you.

M3X wrote:.....Finally the upholsterer put pleats in the seat where your "ass-print" would be to allow the seat to yield where the weight is centered. Initially I thought this was a trivial step only serving aesthetics, but it turned out to be huge difference in comfort. ........

The big benefit there is to avoid your upholstery being ripped when your you-know-what puckers up during a hairy landing, or when removing the upholstery from that same puckered you-know-what afterward.

Zzz wrote:

Cary wrote:I know that one of the things all home builders tout as a benefit of building their own is that they get a better airplane for their money, which may be true. But I sure wouldn't recommend skimping on the pilot seat, to save a buck. Just my opinion.

Well, my take on it is that I'm not sure what Oregon Aero could do for me that a skilled boat or auto upholsterer couldn't do under my direction in regard to the foam and slip cover. There's no denying OA does great work, but they do cater to a certified market where there's a premium applied to anything.

I think you can come close to OA seat design, but most of theirs (except the cub and husky seats) are more complex, engineering-wise than most realize. I built my own cushion set from high density foam for my 170, and they were nice, but not as comfy as an OA Cessna seat. Cheaper, though.

As to cover materials, there are several types of "faux leather" out there that meet burn cert, and are nearly impossible to tell from leather. They are both cheaper and lighter than leather. A friend has a Cessna Airmaster, which had an all leather interior. To lighten it up, he actually removed all that leather and replaced it with "faux leather" . He took 40 pounds off the basic weight of the plane .

And, I really couldn't tell much difference in the look and feel.

MTV

Been putting my ass on sheepskin for the last several airplanes. The biggest, thickest most expensive one I can find, thrown over the memory pad layered seat cushion, which is on top of the stock RANS supplied upholstered seat. I NEVER get uncomfortable, plus I like being able to pull the skin out (it's not secured, just thrown in there) and use it for whatever when camping out. It's cool to sit on in the summer, warm in the winter, and cost around $200.00, in this case for me anyway, a simple approach is working great.