Sleeping bags
Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:41 pm
Sleeping bags
Who’s in the know regarding lightweight sleeping systems? Down still the gold standard? Talking freezing or slightly above at night. Also have thermarest that came over on the Ark. Is there something better? This Rans ain’t a 206.
Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:57 pm
Re: Sleeping bags
http://featheredfriends.com/
Nothing else is even close for warmth-to-weight and quality.
Pretty much all of the old standards (North Face, Marmot, Sierra Designs, etc.) have reduced their quality to the point that they're essentially disposable bags if used with any regularity. I've been tremendously disappointed in all of them during the past decade.
Re pads...there are more "modern" air-core pads that are lighter and pack smaller, but the nice thing about a vintage Thermarest is if it won't hold air, you've still got something underneath you...maybe not what you want, but something. The air-core pads give you NOTHING when they quit holding air, which they do with some regularity. When space isn't a big concern I'm back to old-school foam pads (Thermarest makes them): they insulate better and don't quit working because of a pin hole.
Edit:
As far as "systems" go, a tent will raise the micro climate that you lay in ten to thirty degrees, depending on wind. A properly venting tent will also reduce condensation from dew, keeping your bag more efficient. You don't need a tent if the rest of your kit is up to the task...I've slept soundly through many snow storms with nothing over me but my bag...but they definitely make your sleeping environment warmer.
The clothes you wear to bed matter. Somewhere along the line a theory that clothes keep your sleeping bag from "warming you" came into vogue. That theory is nothing but voodoo bullshit. Insulation works, whether it's in the form of clothing, a sleeping bag, or both.
I like a down sweater to sleep in, as well as a hat, neck gator, socks (mostly to keep my bag clean), and merino wool long underwear. When it's relatively warm I forgo sleeping in clothes, but use a merino wool sleeping bag liner...both for comfort and to keep my bag cleaner than it would be if it was laying against my body... Liners are a lot easier to clean than sleeping bags.
Nothing else is even close for warmth-to-weight and quality.
Pretty much all of the old standards (North Face, Marmot, Sierra Designs, etc.) have reduced their quality to the point that they're essentially disposable bags if used with any regularity. I've been tremendously disappointed in all of them during the past decade.
Re pads...there are more "modern" air-core pads that are lighter and pack smaller, but the nice thing about a vintage Thermarest is if it won't hold air, you've still got something underneath you...maybe not what you want, but something. The air-core pads give you NOTHING when they quit holding air, which they do with some regularity. When space isn't a big concern I'm back to old-school foam pads (Thermarest makes them): they insulate better and don't quit working because of a pin hole.
Edit:
As far as "systems" go, a tent will raise the micro climate that you lay in ten to thirty degrees, depending on wind. A properly venting tent will also reduce condensation from dew, keeping your bag more efficient. You don't need a tent if the rest of your kit is up to the task...I've slept soundly through many snow storms with nothing over me but my bag...but they definitely make your sleeping environment warmer.
The clothes you wear to bed matter. Somewhere along the line a theory that clothes keep your sleeping bag from "warming you" came into vogue. That theory is nothing but voodoo bullshit. Insulation works, whether it's in the form of clothing, a sleeping bag, or both.
I like a down sweater to sleep in, as well as a hat, neck gator, socks (mostly to keep my bag clean), and merino wool long underwear. When it's relatively warm I forgo sleeping in clothes, but use a merino wool sleeping bag liner...both for comfort and to keep my bag cleaner than it would be if it was laying against my body... Liners are a lot easier to clean than sleeping bags.
Last edited by Hammer on Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:02 pm
Re: Sleeping bags
I've become somewhat of a gear nerd in the past few years. I've learned up and tried many bags and while I can't afford the top of the line stuff, I am really happy with my REI brand down bag. It was their first 850 fill down bag. And is honestly to warm for the summer and into fall (archery season). But it compacts down really well. Downside to down, it you shouldn't have it in a compression type sack for it's life as the down need room to breath. So if you are looking for something to throw in the cargo compartment and forget about for a year, might not be the best choice. Or, put it in a larger bag where it isn't suffocated.
Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:39 pm
Re: Sleeping bags
Thanks Hammer. I was hoping you’d chime in.
Is Western Mountaineering a good brand? I read good things about them along with FF.
Is Western Mountaineering a good brand? I read good things about them along with FF.
Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:42 pm
Re: Sleeping bags
Spdcrazy wrote:I've become somewhat of a gear nerd in the past few years. I've learned up and tried many bags and while I can't afford the top of the line stuff, I am really happy with my REI brand down bag. It was their first 850 fill down bag. And is honestly to warm for the summer and into fall (archery season). But it compacts down really well. Downside to down, it you shouldn't have it in a compression type sack for it's life as the down need room to breath. So if you are looking for something to throw in the cargo compartment and forget about for a year, might not be the best choice. Or, put it in a larger bag where it isn't suffocated.
Thanks. I was thinking more along the lines of using it a couple of times a year then hanging unstuffed. Didn’t know if there’s some sort of new super synthetic that’s better but sounds like not yet.
Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:44 pm
Re: Sleeping bags
The Alaskan Standard-What you will find stored in the back of many Alaskan aircraft with the survival gear.
Wiggy Bags
https://www.wiggys.com
Wiggy Bags
https://www.wiggys.com
- RockHopper offline
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Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:24 pm
Re: Sleeping bags
Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering. I personally went for WM but FF is also very very good, as Hammer noted. Along with my nice WM bag (link below), I own a much cheaper 650 fill REI Sahara (30deg F, 12 years old) bag that I use extremely often to keep from using my WM bag unnecessarily. I have no complaints with either bag, for what they are.
http://www.westernmountaineering.com/sl ... versalite/
-asa
http://www.westernmountaineering.com/sl ... versalite/
-asa
Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:38 pm
Re: Sleeping bags
RockHopper wrote:The Alaskan Standard-What you will find stored in the back of many Alaskan aircraft with the survival gear.
Wiggy Bags
https://www.wiggys.com
Like he said...he's in a Rans, not a 206...
Wiggy Bags are HEAVY and BULKY. That's fine...sometimes. But not when either weight or bulk are of concern.
Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:09 pm
Re: Sleeping bags
Wigato is the master of over doing insulation. As Hammer pointed out, a shelter (doesn’t have to be a tent) will raise the temp of your surroundings considerably, AND block wind and keep you dry.
Sleeping out in a mega bag is just a bad idea on a lot of levels.
Doesn’t take much to put up a shelter. I’ve slept out at -45 using my wing covers as basis for a shelter, and a medium weight sleeping bag and was toasty.
Wiggy’s stuff, as Hammer noted, is really bulky.
And at least in my experience, it’s not found in all AK airplanes.
Take course in survival, there are great skills that can keep you alive.
MTV
Sleeping out in a mega bag is just a bad idea on a lot of levels.
Doesn’t take much to put up a shelter. I’ve slept out at -45 using my wing covers as basis for a shelter, and a medium weight sleeping bag and was toasty.
Wiggy’s stuff, as Hammer noted, is really bulky.
And at least in my experience, it’s not found in all AK airplanes.
Take course in survival, there are great skills that can keep you alive.
MTV
Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:37 am
Re: Sleeping bags
I have to say, good sleep is something I'm willing to burn pounds on. Love my wiggy's bag...
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Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:02 am
Re: Sleeping bags
https://www.rei.com/product/112099/nemo ... g-bag-mens
This Nemo bags weighs 2.5 lbs. Super warm plus it has vents that allow you to cool off. Bag is water resistant. Not cheap but I got mine on sale. Bag as a -1C warmth rating. Very warm when the temps were in the 40s this summer. I had to open the vents.
https://www.moosejaw.com/product/exped- ... d_10331161
The above link is for the Exped air-mattress. This is by far the most comfortable mattress to sleep on I have encountered. Feels like my bed at home. It is only about 4 inches thick but very durable and strong. The thinner design compared to other air-mattresses keeps you warmer. It might be too bulky for your RANS, but it only weighs 5.6 lbs.
This Nemo bags weighs 2.5 lbs. Super warm plus it has vents that allow you to cool off. Bag is water resistant. Not cheap but I got mine on sale. Bag as a -1C warmth rating. Very warm when the temps were in the 40s this summer. I had to open the vents.
https://www.moosejaw.com/product/exped- ... d_10331161
The above link is for the Exped air-mattress. This is by far the most comfortable mattress to sleep on I have encountered. Feels like my bed at home. It is only about 4 inches thick but very durable and strong. The thinner design compared to other air-mattresses keeps you warmer. It might be too bulky for your RANS, but it only weighs 5.6 lbs.
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Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:08 am
Re: Sleeping bags
I have wondered whether this newer moisture-resistant down that some of the old line manufacturers are touting is as warm and as moisture-resistant as they seem to say. If so, it would be a real benefit when in both cold and moist situations. If I camped in such conditions, I might spring for one of those, although they are pretty pricey. I would think that they'd be ideal for survival situations, which for most of us aren't overly predictable.
For camping in known conditions, I have 2 sleeping bags, both of which have lasted now for about 20 years of intermittent use. In fact, I'd have to say that with some decent care, they don't show hardly any wear. I don't wash them after each use, but they have been washed fairly often and tumble dried with tennis balls.
One is a Marmot down bag that I picked up at an REI "garage sale"--a $250 bag for $100, because it had one slight "pull" in the fabric but nothing else wrong with it. It's incredibly warm and with a liner and me wearing some light clothes has kept me reasonably warm to well below freezing, down to about 20F as I recall--can't recall tenting in colder weather. It packs down to very small, but I store it in its large storage bag between uses. It's definitely my "go to" bag for cold weather camping.
The other is an REI synthetic bag, which is suitable for boat camping and is sufficiently warm down to about 55F, but not much colder. I used it on my small boat trip back in 2002, and I've used it on my flights to OSH, where its warmth is sufficient and the moist climate makes the down bag less suitable.
One other thought: I tend to be a "glamper" most of the time, so my usual tent is a 4 man tent that gives me and my dog lots of room. For an extended stay, I really like all that room. But for a survival situation or any cold weather situation, a smaller tent would provide more warmth, I think. I have backpacked with a 2 man tent, and it was easier to stay warm, with me and my dog both providing some of the BTUs.
Cary
For camping in known conditions, I have 2 sleeping bags, both of which have lasted now for about 20 years of intermittent use. In fact, I'd have to say that with some decent care, they don't show hardly any wear. I don't wash them after each use, but they have been washed fairly often and tumble dried with tennis balls.
One is a Marmot down bag that I picked up at an REI "garage sale"--a $250 bag for $100, because it had one slight "pull" in the fabric but nothing else wrong with it. It's incredibly warm and with a liner and me wearing some light clothes has kept me reasonably warm to well below freezing, down to about 20F as I recall--can't recall tenting in colder weather. It packs down to very small, but I store it in its large storage bag between uses. It's definitely my "go to" bag for cold weather camping.
The other is an REI synthetic bag, which is suitable for boat camping and is sufficiently warm down to about 55F, but not much colder. I used it on my small boat trip back in 2002, and I've used it on my flights to OSH, where its warmth is sufficient and the moist climate makes the down bag less suitable.
One other thought: I tend to be a "glamper" most of the time, so my usual tent is a 4 man tent that gives me and my dog lots of room. For an extended stay, I really like all that room. But for a survival situation or any cold weather situation, a smaller tent would provide more warmth, I think. I have backpacked with a 2 man tent, and it was easier to stay warm, with me and my dog both providing some of the BTUs.
Cary
"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth..., put out my hand and touched the face of God." J.G. Magee
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:13 am
Re: Sleeping bags
For those of you who have not discovered Outdoor Vitals yet, you need to check them out. The quality and materials are amazing. After finding these bags I would never buy a brand name bag again... and yes I have used them all, North Face, mountain hardware, marmot, western mountaineering. I love these bags more than my super expensive western mountaineering bags.
https://outdoorvitals.com/collections/down-sleeping-bags
The owner is based in Cedar City, Utah.
https://outdoorvitals.com/collections/down-sleeping-bags
The owner is based in Cedar City, Utah.
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:54 am
Re: Sleeping bags
gbflyer wrote:Spdcrazy wrote:I've become somewhat of a gear nerd in the past few years. I've learned up and tried many bags and while I can't afford the top of the line stuff, I am really happy with my REI brand down bag. It was their first 850 fill down bag. And is honestly to warm for the summer and into fall (archery season). But it compacts down really well. Downside to down, it you shouldn't have it in a compression type sack for it's life as the down need room to breath. So if you are looking for something to throw in the cargo compartment and forget about for a year, might not be the best choice. Or, put it in a larger bag where it isn't suffocated.
Thanks. I was thinking more along the lines of using it a couple of times a year then hanging unstuffed. Didn’t know if there’s some sort of new super synthetic that’s better but sounds like not yet.
Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:13 pm
Re: Sleeping bags
Cary wrote:I have wondered whether this newer moisture-resistant down that some of the old line manufacturers are touting is as warm and as moisture-resistant as they seem to say. If so, it would be a real benefit when in both cold and moist situations. If I camped in such conditions, I might spring for one of those, although they are pretty pricey. I would think that they'd be ideal for survival situations, which for most of us aren't overly predictable.
I'm a believer in the treated (water resistant) down. My evidence is anecdotal, but in my experience, the stuff works. I've had a treated down bag for a few years now, and the first time I used it I ended up in wet, heavy snow in which it was nearly impossible to keep gear truly down. I had to pack up my snow-laden camp and move a number of miles one day, and when I finally climbed into my sleeping bag that night I was pretty concerned about staying warm. I had on a treated down jacket inside my treated down sleeping bag - both were more than a little damp - and by morning everything was dry and toasty warm. That wouldn't have happened with untreated down, in my opinion.
Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:21 pm
Re: Sleeping bags
180driver wrote:For those of you who have not discovered Outdoor Vitals yet, you need to check them out. The quality and materials are amazing. After finding these bags I would never buy a brand name bag again... and yes I have used them all, North Face, mountain hardware, marmot, western mountaineering. I love these bags more than my super expensive western mountaineering bags.
https://outdoorvitals.com/collections/down-sleeping-bags
The owner is based in Cedar City, Utah.
Thank you! I'm in the market for a new 0 degree bag and will likely be ordering one of these soon. Excellent prices for sure!
Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:30 pm
Re: Sleeping bags
I find that my down bag keeps me considerably warmer in cold temps when I wear very little clothing in it. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense, but in fact its true.
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