Lately I've been thinking if it would be worth getting a sport pilot license over a private pilot license or vise versa.
I figure I can use the experience and opinions of BCP determining if a SPL would be the route to go or a PPL.

I would like to fly for fun first and then after getting some time under my belt get a job flying.


Interrogate me and I'll answer the best I can.


-Ansel

p.s. It's about a hour or more drive for any instructors and rental's.

I'd say it mainly depends on what you want to fly.
If you plan on flying for fun, flying or owning an LSA-compliant airplane, don't wanna go IFR, and don't wanna fly at night---sport pilot is definitely the way to go.
But if you want to go on to fly commercially, you might as well knock out that PP license now, and start working on your instrument & commercial tickets.

Ansel,

I'm nearing the end of my PPL and have made numerous errors in my journey but still recommend PPL over Sport Pilot.

There is something to be said for immersing yourself in the subject-- in for a penny, in for a pound. Assuming similar laws in the US as Canada, completing on-line groundschool would allow you to do much of the grunt work from the comfort of your home, leaving only the flying part at the end of a long drive.

As much as I struggled to complete ground school on my computer I definitely feel better versed in many aspects of aviation than I would have otherwise.

It sounds like you'll eventually get your PPL, why not make that your starting point?

Bluntly, if your eventual plan is a flying job, the sport pilot is a wasted step, both financially and time-wise.

Cary

My take...

Just get the Private license. It's the stepping stone to everything else...the Sport license is NOT. Why put in 1/2 the work for 1/4 the privileges? I don't know what the insurance premiums are for one verses the other, but I'd guess there's potentially a comma's difference at the end of the year, if that matters to you.

Ideally we'd all learn at our own pace, from a grizzled old flyhound who only spoke fifty words in a day and was able to instill the deepest truths about flight into our consciousness as we turned and banked over fields of amber grain. But that really doesn't happen outside of Richard Bach novels (which are fiction, by the way).

Driving to Missoula for a hour of flying is not the way to do it. Start looking for full-immersion schools that will have you done in a month if you show up with the written out of the way. Pick one where you can camp. I camped for a full winter at 5,600 feet to get my PPL. In many ways it sucked, but that's what I had to do to get it done. Save up your money and then just go do it.

Another (possible) option is to find an instructor with an airplane that will come to Plains for a month. You put them up in your house or whatever, and you get it done. Not super easy to actuate, but it's possible.

I've watched people piss a few thousand dollars away over a couple years and never get a ticket, and I've seen people go from nil-to-license in 3 short weeks. I don't think the later group paid any less, but they DID get their license out of it, which is really the whole point.

That ticket is for life...it's worth the effort and cost. Doing less makes zero sense to me.

Your question precipitates a whole bunch of other questions. For example:

What is your time frame for this whole evolution? You say that initially, you just want to fly for fun, but then eventually, to get a commercial certificate. What's your time line on that transition?

What kind of aircraft is available for instruction? Is there in fact an LS compliant aircraft available where you plan to train? Or are you planning to purchase an aircraft? Not many FBOs have LS compliant aircraft for training.

What do you weigh? An LS airplane is not going to have much in the way of useful load.....so if you're a 240 pounder, it's probably not going to work. I know of an outfit that bought three Cessna Skycatchers, then realized that their DPE (and chief pilot) couldn't fly in them, because he's too big.

The FAA recently changed some of their policy regarding what time you've logged in an LS airplane can be counted toward the PPLicense. So the good news there is that you can credit most of the time in LS toward the PPL.

That said, you may be just as well off to simply complete the private license, and then build time. UNLESS, of course, that you're planning on buying an LS compliant plane, like a Cub or 7AC Champ, taylorcraft, etc. But, again, in that case, make SURE you can find an instructor who can LEGALLY fly in that plane WITH you, and that there is a DPE who's light enough to do so for the checkride.

So, that's a long way of suggesting that going direct to the PPL MAY be your best plan.

Good luck,

MTV

Put in the commute and plan for an early and later flight with rental and instructor.
Even plan some ground school review time.

I cannot remember a student who could take a lesson and run for home without at least taking a slow stole around the tie downs and hangars with possibility of running into someone who was willing to accept compliments about his/her sweetheart. There is always the old, "would you like a hand with that?"

I moved my last plane from five minutes away to 35 minutes away just for the change in quality of characters.

I have even had invitations to "go for a ride" while wandering around and offering cheap labor.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Hammer,
I agree, driving a hour to fly one hour and then drive back a hour is not worth it. I would very much rather not work or doing anything else and just hammer-out training when I do, I don't want to wast years to get a license.

MTV,
"What's your time line on that transition?"
None, I don't have time line for transitioning.

"What kind of aircraft is available for instruction?"
The only rentals I know of are PA-28's & 172's.

"What do you weigh?"
I weigh between 240 and 250, I could stand to lose some weight anyway.

The fact its a hour drive to any rental, it might be better to buy a "cheap" plane to build hours... at the very least, after I get a license.

mtv wrote:The FAA recently changed some of their policy regarding what time you've logged in an LS airplane can be counted toward the PPLicense. So the good news there is that you can credit most of the time in LS toward the PPL.

Is there a link that I can read more about that?

ExperimentalAviator wrote:Thanks for all the replies so far.

Hammer,
I agree, driving a hour to fly one hour and then drive back a hour is not worth it. I would very much rather not work or doing anything else and just hammer-out training when I do, I don't want to wast years to get a license.

MTV,
"What's your time line on that transition?"
None, I don't have time line for transitioning.

"What kind of aircraft is available for instruction?"
The only rentals I know of are PA-28's & 172's.

"What do you weigh?"
I weigh between 240 and 250, I could stand to lose some weight anyway.

The fact its a hour drive to any rental, it might be better to buy a "cheap" plane to build hours... at the very least, after I get a license.

mtv wrote:The FAA recently changed some of their policy regarding what time you've logged in an LS airplane can be counted toward the PPLicense. So the good news there is that you can credit most of the time in LS toward the PPL.

Is there a link that I can read more about that?

Here's a link: http://sportpilottraining.sportaviation ... ate-pilot/

Also, Federal Aviation Regulations, Part 61 contains everything you would have to do to meet the certification requirements of any of the pilot certificates. Here's a link: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SI ... ain_02.tpl

MTV

ExperimentalAviator wrote:.........
"What kind of aircraft is available for instruction?"
The only rentals I know of are PA-28's & 172's.
"What do you weigh?"
I weigh between 240 and 250, I could stand to lose some weight anyway.
.............

In between these two factors, I'd say sport pilot is not much of an option.
I remember when I was selling my first airplane (stock C150) and a guy came to check it out. "Just looking for something for me & the wife to fly around in" he said. Well, since he was about your size, and his wife wasn't much smaller-- in between being small & not having much useful load, the 150 wasn't gonna be too practical. I suggested that he look at a 172.

Thanks MTV.
One thing that didn't think about till now is the hours I would have after getting a SPL would not transfer over to a PPL. I would end up zeroing the time I'd have as PIC from the SPL except for the instruction time.

hotrod180 wrote:

ExperimentalAviator wrote:.........
"What kind of aircraft is available for instruction?"
The only rentals I know of are PA-28's & 172's.
"What do you weigh?"
I weigh between 240 and 250, I could stand to lose some weight anyway.
.............

In between these two factors, I'd say sport pilot is not much of an option.
I remember when I was selling my first airplane (stock C150) and a guy came to check it out. "Just looking for something for me & the wife to fly around in" he said. Well, since he was about your size, and his wife wasn't much smaller-- in between being small & not having much useful load, the 150 wasn't gonna be too practical. I suggested that he look at a 172.

Exactly. It's difficult enough to find an instructor that can fly (legally) in a LS airplane, but with a 240 pound student, it's going to be near impossible. Then you throw in the additional problem of finding a Designated Pilot Examiner who is also small enough to fly with you, and you have a nearly impossible situation.

I would definitely recommend against Light Sport, and in certificated airplanes, I'd highly recommend one of the four place types, again, to ensure you've got sufficient useful load to fly with an instructor, especially during a cross country.

As I've pointed out elsewhere, an instructor and a DPE have to put their signatures in YOUR logbook, certifying to the FAA that they've flown with you. I've seen some situations where an instructor flew with a student, signed his logbook, and in fact the weight and balance of the airplane precluded them from LEGALLY flying that airplane. I know of at least one case where a DPE lost all his certificates and his DPE designation because he flew with an applicant in a plane that the two of them could not have legally flown together.

So, put that on your list of mandatory criteria, both for rentals and prospective purchase: Adequate useful load....

MTV

I drove an hour each way to get my PPL. Did it in 3 months. This is not a show stopper.

Go get it!!!!!!

[/quote]I suggested that he look at a 172.[/quote]

You have gotten some good advice on here. While I was not anywhere near your weight, I was not comfortable in a 150. Let me elaborate, I always wanted to fly and realized I was going to own a plane eventually, I bought a 150 to get my PPL. Everyone suggested that this was one of the cheapest ways to own and get my PPL. Within a few hours of owning it, I realized I felt nearly claustrophobic from the cramped quarters. Having an instructor the same size as you probably had a lot to do with it. No offense meant, its just that most of these planes are lacking of space. Designed back when the average guy was 50-100 lbs smaller than the average guy now a days.

I traded the 150 for a 172 thinking I would eventually upgrade to a 180/182. While the 172 isn't wider than a 150, it sure feels roomier. The additional power and load carrying capabilities of the 172 make for a great 2 person plane. I will also mention that the operating cost are not much higher with a 172, mainly additional fuel burn. Hangar/tiedown is still the same, insurance very close to the same costs also.

I still have the same 172 I purchased to get my PPL!! Owned it since 1987 and while I occasionally try to sell it and upgrade to a 180/182, I never do it. I realize the plane does 90% of what I need. There is a reason they sold so many of them.

gbflyer wrote:I drove an hour each way to get my PPL. Did it in 3 months. This is not a show stopper.

Go get it!!!!!!

Well, its not something I'm not crazy about. Now, if I can get two hours of flight per trip then I wouldn't mind.

ExperimentalAviator wrote:

gbflyer wrote:I drove an hour each way to get my PPL. Did it in 3 months. This is not a show stopper.

Go get it!!!!!!

Well, its not something I'm not crazy about. Now, if I can get two hours of flight per trip then I wouldn't mind.

GB gives good advice. Look, learning to fly requires passion.....you have to want it. The more difficult it is to accomplish, the more you'll have to want it.

Find a good instructor first. Then work with that instructor to make your lessons as efficient as possible. Trust me, at first, you will not WANT to fly for two hours......most students can barely tolerate an hour of flight time at first. Learning to fly is a very stressful operation, and after 45 minutes or an hour, most of what you're doing can become negative learning......not good.

BUT, there are lots of things you can do to make your training flights more effective. EVERY flight should have a pre and post flight discussion. So, most of your flights are going to take close to two hours anyway. And, there are things you and your instructor are going to need to do on the ground in any case.

Finally, a good instructor is going to be giving you homework. That, plus doing an online self study course in preparation for the written exam will give you lots to do and think about at home between lessons.

If you really want to fly, you can make this situation work. There is also the possibility of going somewhere for a "full immersion" course, but those are going to be expensive, and demanding of a pretty big chunk of time away from home. They can work, with those caveats.

MTV

What MTV said. You live flight training 24/7 by studying at home and at every opportunity.

Slightly tangential: When I did mine, I drove 45 minutes each way from Santa Barbara to Santa Ynez to fly once or maybe twice a week if lucky. My instructor was younger (still older than me) but he was shrewd. He made a spreadsheet that we dubbed the "Opt-o-miser" that allowed me to satisfy multiple items from 61.109 (PPL experience requirements) in the same flight.

I stopped partying and drinking as much, saved my money, and just spent time reading and studying for the knowledge exam. I set up flight simulator and immersed myself in virtual XC flights or IMC. It was fun and you only get to be that bright eyed and enthusiastic once.

Went into the check ride with 40.4 hours. I deserve none of the credit-- it was all Jeff. His guidance was paramount. I screwed up the shortfield landing so bad the examiner told me I could not have done worse. I told him I simply forgot our plan to use the taxiway as an imaginary threshold and could I do it again? He told me it didn't matter, my other landings we fine and that BTW he hated taildraggers.

Total cost with ground school and the 152 rental was $4,100. That was 2002 rates though.

I'm a believer in renting while training. You don't have to deal with incurring the cost of potential training-derailing maintenance like engine issues, and the inspections are always taken care of by someone else. Owning and training does work for a lot of people, but not me. Toss the keys back and walk away, sleep soundly. Fly many different types, get around and see what you like. Get your certificate and then start shopping for a decent airplane, which unless you're independently wealthy or have rich daddy, will probably still be a modest airplane like a 172.

The weight/body size thing though, if you are confident you can get a class 3 medical, should steer you forward the Private certificate. For most of us there was no sport pilot certificate when we trained, so there was no decision. IMO it's too limiting and once you're in training mode it's just a little more anyway.

Those are my free tidbits.

Just go PPL.

I've had a few people go from SPL to PPL, who wished they just went straight PPL, NEVER had a PPL who wished they went SPL.

Also if you're ever going to fly to another country, the PPL is ICAO, SPL not so much.

Besides, real world you'll want a little night training and instrument training, just in case, which ends up being the same as getting a PPL from the start. You will also find a newer sport plane costs WAY more than a older Cessna, so ROI newer sport planes can often cost more to rent compared to a larger Cessna 170/PA28 etc.

Only possible modification which would make sense would be to get your initial PPL in a glider, then power add on.

Maybe you could save travel money by hopping a freight! I'm sure you recognize this view...

Paradise! When did you take that?