I have a request in to Stene Aviation about these topics but maybe someone on this forum has answers. Thinking of buying a 206 with Horton STOL. Is it possible to add the Sportsman leading edge to it and would I get much short field improvement?

I am in northeast Oklahoma. Any installers in this part of the country who have done more than a couple? I think there might be one in Bridgeport, TX. That’s close enough.

I’ve installed many Sportsman LEs. I’ve also removed less aggressive cuffs like the Horton, owl, and Bush, etc in favor of the sportsman.

Shoot me a PM and we can talk on the phone if that would be helpful to you.

The sportsman is going to be an improvement over the Horton. You will however have to take the Horton off, which is not that big of a deal. The sportsman is bigger and will cover the old holes. You will have to fill the rivets on the top of the wing where you remove the stall fence. Technically, you need to remove the stall fence if you put the sportsman on.

Improvement aside, the real question is, is the juice worth a squeeze?

There are a lot of opinions here, but I think most people would say it’s probably not.

In your case, it’s really a decision based on budget, and your appetite for how much you wanna spend on the airplane.


I would probably do it, but it would be way way way down on my list. There are a lot of other things that would be done, and the sportsman would be last.

Toss some VG’s up on there right away, and see how you like how she flies that way.

Get the airplane, set up with other mods first, put lots of gas through it and see how well you are flying the airplane and how short you’re landing it. If you really want to squeak a couple more bits out of the old girl, then, by all means, go for it. WingX would be all at the same time.

Mountain Airframe in Mena, AR did mine. I'm happy with their install.

Agree with Bigrenna; add the VGs and fly with the Horton. Bought our 56 182 with Horton and VGs and she isn't too far behind Husky in STOL performance. I believe at this point the performance is more about the pilot (me) than what I'll gain with an equipment change.

I disagree with Bigrenna, but as he mentioned, there are lots of opinions.
I had a Horton with VGs, removed it, and added the Sportsman and VGs, huge improvement which I noticed on the very first flight.
Before, I was doing approaches at 60mph and the plane felt like was falling from under me, did the change, and got stable 50mph approaches.
Just look at the graph, Horton might improve the old Cessna wing, but its almost the same as the new Cessna leading edge.
Look how big the Sportsman kit is, highly recommend it.

I’ve had a Horton kit in my 180 for years; wheels, skis, and floats. It works great, and handles beautifully. 400’ landings all day long on wheels and wheel skis(on pavement/grass). Good takeoff performance in all regimes.

Now, motoadve posts some really cool, aggressive, instructive videos in his 182. If you want to do that type of flying, and go with him to gravel bars the Sportsman may be the ticket.

If it were me, I’d fly it as configured; then decide whether a Sportsman or WingX mod is necessary and worth the cost and effort.
Hope the airplane purchase goes well!

Fly more, pay less. Get good.

MW

I agree with most of the other posts. Put VGs on it and fly the horton. I fly a stock wing 206 that blows the doors off most cuffed planes because I know my plane extremely well. Burn avgas and learn your plane. That will most likely have a greater effect then a cuff. Once you have it dialed in really well, then you can eek out the extra performance that the different cuff might give you.

A good friend has a 185 with Cessna leading edge cuff. I installed a Sportsman and he notice a bit of improvement but jus a little bit. He says it was a waste of dollars. Buy 100 LL with the money. If you have lots of extra money send me a PM.

Tim

I have a sportsman on my 53 180. I like it, it flies slower with more control than my friends 56 with a horton.

Sure, learn your plane well and fly it to the limit. Or add the cuff and do it with a significant safety margin.

It's not a big balls 206, my baby brother 170B has a Horton cuff along with VG's and it all works together nicely along with a Lycoming 0-360. I wouldn't change a thing, nor would I go to the trouble of changing it for another style of cuff. As others has wisely said just spend more on avgas.

My 185 has the Horton (and flint tips) and it will fly with the airspeed indicating high 20's MPH when you are light, and I can land it in about 300 ft (when I luck out and do everything right)

Definitely doesn't seem worth the cost, headache to squeeze a little more out of it.

Landing short is more about skill than what kind of wing leading edge you have.

If you are not looking for super short performance, its fine to keep the Horton, but be aware the Sportsman will give you safer margins, shorter take offs for sure, it is made to be more spin resistant (we tried in my 182 years ago during an unusual maneuvers training, and it did not wanted to go into a spin, but with more of an aft CG I am sure it will enter a spin eventually, which we did in the 170 with CC during training)

Full flaps heavy loaded go around and in an emergency will make it,( Did it many times during the unusual attitudes training) your landing speed will be a lot slower than with the Horton in case of an emergency landing.

Whatever Cessna I own that can have a Sportsman , I will put one on.

I have RSTOL and Sportsman in 185. Maybe it has saved me from a stall spin when getting a little too slow in a turn base to final but I try not to do that. It is nifty to see it keep flying with the airspeed in the 30s up high but the angle of attack is crazy. I can barely see over the dash let alone land it looking at the sky. I figure the 206 tail would be digging a trench for planting season if you tried to use that. There is probably a measurable speed penalty with more lift you do not need in cruise. It seems most useful on floats where you need all the lift you can get, in a stol competition, or really tight margin backcountry stuff like gravel bars. I will not be doing any of those things. Some do like motoadve.

motoadve wrote:If you are not looking for super short performance, its fine to keep the Horton, but be aware the Sportsman will give you safer margins, shorter take offs for sure, it is made to be more spin resistant (we tried in my 182 years ago during an unusual maneuvers training, and it did not wanted to go into a spin, but with more of an aft CG I am sure it will enter a spin eventually, which we did in the 170 with CC during training)

Full flaps heavy loaded go around and in an emergency will make it,( Did it many times during the unusual attitudes training) your landing speed will be a lot slower than with the Horton in case of an emergency landing.

Whatever Cessna I own that can have a Sportsman , I will put one on.

Lots of "For sures" and "wills" and "lot shorters" in here. I disagree. It might make a difference, but in reality how much? My stock wing, as in no cuff, no VGs, nothing 206 will take off and fly under 40mph. It will easily hold 39mph in slow flight and do 30 degree bank turns at that without feeling mushy. A cuff needs more angle of attack to work and I'd be dragging the tail. Id argue that the weight of any cuff over the stock wing would make my performance worse. I am measured take offs at 172 feet. How much is a sportsman gonna improve that? Probably not enough to warrant the cost. That said, I have one in a box to put on it, and I am going to do it just to give my customers a truly honest opinion backed by numbers. Not trying to start a pissing match, but these are 206 numbers, which is what the OP was asking about. A 182 with less power, maybe there is more benefit. But knowing how to wring everything out of your airplane is going to be safer at the end of the day, cuff or not.
For a 206 on wheels that has any type of cuff on it already, I sure wouldn't take one off to put another on.

A1Skinner wrote:Lots of "For sures" and "wills" and "lot shorters" in here. I disagree. It might make a difference, but in reality how much?

+1

Totally agree. When I first started modifying these birds, I was all about doing everything all the time. As I gained a little bit of experience and watched a lot of water run under the bridge, my opinions have tempered.

As I said before, Sportsman is a great mod... probably a "must have," but the question is when its done... and with a Horton already on there, put the hard earned rent money into agvas first.

David, what’s the empty weight and CG of your 206?

Lots of "For sures" and "wills" and "lot shorters" in here. I disagree. It might make a difference, but in reality how much? My stock wing, as in no cuff, no VGs, nothing 206 will take off and fly under 40mph. It will easily hold 39mph in slow flight and do 30 degree bank turns at that without feeling mushy. A cuff needs more angle of attack to work and I'd be dragging the tail. Id argue that the weight of any cuff over the stock wing would make my performance worse. I am measured take offs at 172 feet. How much is a sportsman gonna improve that? Probably not enough to warrant the cost. That said, I have one in a box to put on it, and I am going to do it just to give my customers a truly honest opinion backed by numbers. Not trying to start a pissing match, but these are 206 numbers, which is what the OP was asking about. A 182 with less power, maybe there is more benefit. But knowing how to wring everything out of your airplane is going to be safer at the end of the day, cuff or not.
For a 206 on wheels that has any type of cuff on it already, I sure wouldn't take one off to put another on.[/quote]

Sures wills and shorters , because I did this conversion myself in my 182, flew the plane one week after the conversion , and was doing approaches 8 to 10mph slower than before, I think that is worth the change , at least for the flying I like to do.

motoadve wrote:…flew the plane one week after the conversion , and was doing approaches 8 to 10mph slower than before

Its an improvement, but the Sportsman does not lower the stall speed 10mph more than the Horton.

Bigrenna wrote:

motoadve wrote:…flew the plane one week after the conversion , and was doing approaches 8 to 10mph slower than before

Its an improvement, but the Sportsman does not lower the stall speed 10mph more than the Horton.

Unless you let your 250 lb buddy out of the plane before the comparison flight.