58Skylane wrote:So I say call John and get that Maule!

But don't mention BCP or the price might go up.

GumpAir wrote:

Zzz wrote:x2. There's so much to be learned from flying underpowered aircraft.

There is, but.....

If you buy to learn, strictly as a "learning" aircraft, that's fine. But once that learning curve is over, you're stuck with, and limited to gutless, and really missing out on honing skills to the next level.

Maybe it was something I just deluded myself with to ease the pain of not being able to afford much more, because yeah-- it gets old.

FARMAULE wrote:RWM, please let me know who your buddy is insured with.

PM sent

you're getting a lot of advice here... above one person even recommends other tail draggers including a pacer... Pacers are even more close coupled than Maules and so are even more squirelly on landing than Maules... the only complicated, more so than a lesser aircraft, is the constant speed prop.. other than that it's no different than any other taildragger in that you have to fly it till the prop stops...by that I mean you have to pay attention on landing and takeoff just as you would with any of the other planes mentioned above.. another thing you have to bear in mind is todays market... whatever you buy, other than the plane you want to finally own, has to be sold later... that means you will have to hope someone wants your trainer.. and if you don't sell it when you need the cash to buy your dream plane you might just not be able to make a deal on your dream plane.. I know ... I had my tripacer for sale when this Maule came up for sale and I had to come up with the money for the Maule before I sold the tripacer... so I owned two for 2 months paying for hangar and outside tie down spot.. I was lucky to sell the tripacer and I had to take less than I wanted just to get out from under the two payments on tiedown and hangar...do what you want but I've learned over the many years I've been flying to get what you want when you want it even if you have to bite the bullet...and I agree on taking the bushwheels off while you learnon 8.50's.. you want to save those 31's for later...a set of 8.50 recaps should last you a lot of landings and takeoffs..John might even have an old pair..I took my old 800's off last year for a set of 29 11 10's

GumpAir wrote:

Zzz wrote:x2. There's so much to be learned from flying underpowered aircraft.

There is, but.....

If you buy to learn, strictly as a "learning" aircraft, that's fine. But once that learning curve is over, you're stuck with, and limited to gutless, and really missing out on honing skills to the next level.

Not to mention missing out on playing with the big boys in some cool places.
Gump

Who says you can't fly a gutless plane to cool places with the big boys?


Mile Hi with 145 raging hp!

From an instructor's standpoint, I found it a lot easier to instruct in simpler airplanes. The more bells and whistles, the longer the learning curve. But if you have the aptitude to become a pilot, you can overcome any handicap associated with higher power, more complicated power management, etc. As the man says, you pays your money and you takes your choice.

I think the more important issue, frankly, is whether you're ready for the high price of aircraft ownership. If you look on almost any aviation forum, including this one, you'll find that nearly no one can justify ownership on the basis of economics. As soon as anyone starts talking about saving money by owning, he's deluding himself. But owning has its own rewards; economics just isn't one of them. To put it into dollars, to afford a $60,000 airplane, you need to have a $90,000 wallet--and that's not really being facetious. If all you have is a $60,000 wallet, then the airplane you can afford has to be a whole lot less expensive. That's basic aviation economics.

One other thought: As soon as you fall in love with an airplane that you really don't know yet, you're in trouble. It's much like falling in love with a woman. You'll tend to overlook its/her faults, rationalize that you can live with its/her quirks, but if you learn to accept that it's/she's not what you thought it/she was when you first fell in love, it's still a doable situation. As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for--you just might get it/her.

Cary

Thank you everyone for your advice, it was very enlightening. Some of the things you guys have said, I thought about but being inexperienced, I thought maybe I was just over reacting.

I had a fatal blow yesterday when my NAFCo application was denied. I guess I still have too much in student loans and too high of a balance on my house for their comfort. I could afford the payments but that wasnt good enough. I guess will have to just keep saving. Maybe I can buy a C140 or something outright later. Dont get me wrong, I am totally bummed about that Maule, that aircraft was the dream...but most people never have the opportunity to start out at the end goal so I will just have to figure out how to get my training elsewhere and put in my time.

Thanks for all your input again, it did help me and has given my some new things to think about.

Look at cubs champs and tripacers while you save your duckets.

I was going to say what Mister Gump said. Pay attention to him. He speaks wisdom.

I don't have a bit of a problem with learning the basics in an underpowered airplane. Most of us did. I started in a Colt. It's just fine to get started that way. After I made the transition to a Cherokee I hated the Colt. After I bought a Mooney at about 40 hours in my log I couldn't believe how gutless the Cherokee was. On and on. You are NOT going to be happy with a puddle jumper if you EVER get a ride in a high performance airplane. So, don't buy a C150. Figure out how to buy your Maule and then get Maule specific training in your own airplane. As to what you do between now and then, to each his own. I'm not sure how you could make a wrong choice here. Anything you do moving forward is going to be worth the price of admission. I kinda think Pat had it right. Looking back, it's always harder when you wish you had done something like this, rather than wished you hadn't.

No regrets
EB

<edit> Don't tell me this is the last word. Somebody say something.

Oh well!!!!

Sounds like you have the same problem a lot of us have.... champagne tastes but a beer budget. I would rather buy the beer, or save for the champagne, than go into hock for the champagne. IMHO about the only thing you should go into hock for is a house, or a business-- not toys. Obviously other people may feel differently.
From the original post, it looks like you are a brand new student pilot with no actual stick time yet. I remember seeing an airplane for sale at about that point in my life, actually it was one of the things that got me to give flying a try. It was a nosedragger KR-2 homebuilt, for sale locally & reasonably priced (aka cheap), and I thought it was about the coolest thing ever. Of course, after I got some flying time in, I realized that it wasn't a good match for the kind of flying I wanted to do. After you get going, you may decide that a Maule doesn't really fit your mission and that you want a J-3, a Bonanza, an RV-8, or even a KR-2. I'd recommend waiting & seeing how it goes. Who knows-- you may even decide that our particular insanity of spending all our time & money on flying isn't for you.

Hotrod150, It is my mission to get into flying commercially eventually. What type of airplane is really dependent on where I can find work. My interest is in bush flying or flightseeing in a bush environment.

I now have had my second lesson in a Super Decathlon, and I am lovin' it!

As for the going into debt, I completely agree with you. My issue is, I make beer salary instead of champagne! We live in an area where there are no airplanes for rent and the ones that are 1hr away are running $125 /hr dry. So its almost prohibitive to rent as well.

Thankfully, the last two lessons I have got were in a friend's (CFII) personal airplane. The luck isnt going to last long though. I know for a fact he does not want to train in his brand new Decathlon, so I will not be getting any training in landing or take offs. So far it has been "Preflight", "Straight and level", "Climbs", "Descents", "Comms", and "Maintaining course" I even got some night time experience. Stuff that is easy on the Plane.

I like what many said about getting an airplane such as the C140 that is lower power in order to learn correctly, then as everyone else does, sell and upgrade when I am ready. For now, I just look for opportunities to log hours.

Have you considered trying to get your certificate by taking 2 weeks off and doing accelerated flight training?

Rjb, where do they do such a thing? I dont know of any place around here that does that. I live in the Ava Missouri area.

I don't want to sound rude or rain on anyone's parade, but I think you being turn down on your financing was a godsend. If you find $125/hr dry painful, that Maule payment and the feeding, maintaining, and insuring of said Maule will be torturous. It will flat take the fun out of learning to fly which will lead to not learning to fly and that would be a shame. Beer budget (like mine) equates to baby steps. Don't get weighed down with wanting it all right now. Owning an airplane should never be painful, or you'll find yourself not flying it. IMO owning an airplane should be easy financially or your in over your head.

Brent

Vacation man. Look in classified section of flying or search the web. Florida is loaded w places

xcalibursword wrote:Rjb, where do they do such a thing? I dont know of any place around here that does that. I live in the Ava Missouri area.

I financed my first airplane. Had a ball in it, but it never felt right. It was always hanging over my head that I didn't own it outright and it bugged me. I sold it, bought a house, which oddly is way more debt but it seems more ok.

Since selling my plane, I've saved enough $$ to buy another outright, and it somehow feels a lot less anxiety ridden, except that having the cash on-hand is also a nice, secure feeling that one compromises when they buy a big toy. LIke someone else said, don't make it painful to own, or it will become a monkey on your back.

A good thread about philosophies of paying for aircraft: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=8778

Personally, my idea of what plane I want, and what planes I enjoy flying, has changed since I got my private. Some will say it works out better to do your private in your own plane, but I would recommend renting.

Well said Zane. X1

Brent

Thanks Zane, I will look at that thread!