G44 wrote:I highly recommend you take those 29’s off and put 8:00 or 8:50’s on for the training phase. Save the 29’s for when you really need them. The smaller tires are more forgiving and cheaper. Other than that, I see no reason why you can’t do your PPL training in the 180 if you have a competent instructor and if you take it very seriously.


Kurt

SmokeyTheBear wrote:

clappedout180 wrote:i am getting my ppl in my 180 IO520 on 29s am i doing this right

Potentially a regional problem but... have you found a DPE who is a tailwheel pilot?

clappedout180 wrote:

SmokeyTheBear wrote:

clappedout180 wrote:i am getting my ppl in my 180 IO520 on 29s am i doing this right

Potentially a regional problem but... have you found a DPE who is a tailwheel pilot?

no i am sure i will take the check ride in a 172 like all the other peasants and then add teh tailwheel which i think the CFI can add, correct?

NineThreeKilo wrote:

clappedout180 wrote:

SmokeyTheBear wrote:

clappedout180 wrote:i am getting my ppl in my 180 IO520 on 29s am i doing this right

Potentially a regional problem but... have you found a DPE who is a tailwheel pilot?

no i am sure i will take the check ride in a 172 like all the other peasants and then add teh tailwheel which i think the CFI can add, correct?

Correct

Tailwheel is a endorsement any tailwheel qualified CFI can give you, no checkride or DPE etc needed


“ Additional training required for operating tailwheel airplanes.

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a tailwheel airplane unless that person has received and logged flight training from an authorized instructor in a tailwheel airplane and received an endorsement in the person's logbook from an authorized instructor who found the person proficient in the operation of a tailwheel airplane. The flight training must include at least the following maneuvers and procedures:

(i) Normal and crosswind takeoffs and landings;

(ii) Wheel landings (unless the manufacturer has recommended against such landings); and

(iii) Go-around procedures.”

clappedout180 wrote:... i am doing 1/2 my hours in a 172 and that is primary towards the PPL. the other 1/2 of my hours are in the 180 and a 170 on 29 ABW gaining proficiency with a couple of backcountry CFIs. i expect i will have a pile of 180 time before i solo it. i am in no rush and i am old enough that the consequences are on my mind!

Mapleflt wrote:A PPL is a license to learn, get it done first and then start really learning.

mtv wrote:The first question you need to ask with ANY of these aircraft is: "What is the actual legal useful load?". Then, consider YOUR weight, the weight of at LEAST two hours of fuel, plus required reserve, plus weight of survival gear. What's left after you subtract all that from the legal useful load? If that isn't at least 240 or so, that's not the plane you want.

Why is this important? As a CFI, you will be considered Pilot in Command by the FAA and NTSB. Now, your "student" may also be considered PIC, but the agencies are going to hold the CFI "responsible for anything that happens" type of PIC. That means YOUR certificates (Pilot and CFI) are going to be at risk every time you fire that plane up with a student. Don't believe it? Ask me how I got a 709 ride from a "friendly" FSDO.

So, based on my experience: 7GCBC Citabrias are almost universally light on useful load. In fact, I just turned down a Flight Review request in one.....gave the owner my weight, told him to do the math and call me back. He didn't. I'm guessing he's at least 230.

Super Cub: I sold my Super Cub because I wanted to do float ratings in it, and this was before the 2000 pound gross weight mod was available. I bought a Cessna 170. Today, I'd probably keep the Cub and install the 2000 pound kit. That said, if you want to teach spins, forget the Super Cub....very few can meet the requirements of the TC for weight and balance.....seriously, look at the TC. And the 2000 pound kit doesn't change that TC requirement for spins.

7GC Champ: As Keith noted above, the earlier Champs actually have better useful loads than most Citabrias. They also have MUCH friendlier landing gear. They are GREAT spinners as well. I used one for a number of students for spin training, and some T/W training. Most of these folks were fairly lightweight types, however.

Add big tires to any of the above, and you've shot yourself in the foot, useful load wise.

Cessna 170: A great trainer, great useful load for this purpose. Works fine on floats, wheels and skis. Lately, however, they are expensive.

Aeronca Sedan: If you can find one. Great useful load, really good performance, even without flaps. Very under appreciated airplane. There is a spar AD, but I'm pretty sure there's a fix for that.

Scout: Pretty expensive, but they are fairly fast, and have a pretty good useful load. Stay away from the ones with 70 gallon tanks....too easy to carry too much gas. Spring gear can be a challenge. Find an older one with wood wing, and it could work. I wouldn't be afraid of wood wings, just make sure they're inspected properly. I'm not sure they're approved for spins, if you care. TCDS will tell you.

Most other two place trainers simply don't have enough useful load to serve in this role, unless all occupants are very small.

So, if you are a 90 pounder, most of those could work......

Again, bear in mind that, as CFI in a dual role, it's your certificate that's potentially on the line. A flat tire, a seized brake, etc can ruin your day, and you're the one who'll take the fall.

MTV

hotrod180 wrote:

clappedout180 wrote:... i am doing 1/2 my hours in a 172 and that is primary towards the PPL. the other 1/2 of my hours are in the 180 and a 170 on 29 ABW gaining proficiency with a couple of backcountry CFIs. i expect i will have a pile of 180 time before i solo it. i am in no rush and i am old enough that the consequences are on my mind!

Sometimes if you have too many pots on the fire, none of them get very hot.
I would suggest just sticking to the 172 for now & knocking out that PP license ASAP.
THEN move on to learning the 180.

clappedout180 wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:

clappedout180 wrote:... i am doing 1/2 my hours in a 172 and that is primary towards the PPL. the other 1/2 of my hours are in the 180 and a 170 on 29 ABW gaining proficiency with a couple of backcountry CFIs. i expect i will have a pile of 180 time before i solo it. i am in no rush and i am old enough that the consequences are on my mind!

Sometimes if you have too many pots on the fire, none of them get very hot.
I would suggest just sticking to the 172 for now & knocking out that PP license ASAP.
THEN move on to learning the 180.

great point
172 it is
also i have no current option lol