PA1195 wrote:They like to fold up under heavy compression side loads.

Wasn't me! Was sad to see this. Years ago I started working on my tw endorsement in this T-cart. Had the 85hp mod to it. I really liked flying it. A couple years later, someone had this little boo-boo.

If you can, grab one with an 85hp in it. Totally different airplane from a 65 powered version, especially if it's still got the short mount. Mine with the 85 (stock, not a stroker) and a cruise prop, used to cruise at 115. The previous owner weighed 325, and his son weighed over 200. They'd BOTH crawl (sqeez!!) in, after filling all 3 tanks (24 gallons) and stuffing a bunch of food and gear in the little baggage compartment and launch out of the Kalispell City Airport (2935 msl) and fly to the back country strips around here (Schafer, Meadow Creek, etc.) It wasn't a sparkling performer at that weight, but the fact is that it did it.....many times. It used all the runway they'd let it have, but even though it was groaning, it soldiered on.
I'm totally biased on them. Only thing I really wish it had was stick controls and a jackscrew on the stab. Pretty awesome little airplane if you ask me. Future plans for mine is a total rebuild with a stroker 85. As far as parts, there's really nothing you can't build on it. Very simple and very straight forward little plane.
John

John's post is a great fill on the plane. A piper jackscrew trim would be nice as the existing tabs of various dimensions aren't powerful. That would also help with reducing drag. Experimental.

There's two engine mounts - short original and later 4" longer to accommodate accessories and allow for a larger rear baggage while remaining in CG. The short reportedly maneuvers better and has better over the nose visibility. Mine is long and the elevators are tasked to balance the longer nose and 74" metal prop that's heavier than the original wood. But on floats longer helps CG and tends to keep the float tails up on the water.

The C-85 or O-200 add desirable power. Stroked the C-85 is really a C-90 depending on cam installed. Fuel is normally maxed at 24 gallons so 3hrs plus loitering or headwind time. There's Field Approved two additional 6 gallon wing tanks for the long rangers.

As far as parts there's always the alternative of owner built or supervised option: https://www.savvyaviation.com/wp-conten ... -parts.pdf

Edit: John knows more but I suspect the diagonal strut failure is due to a combination of internal and external corrosion and flex due to loads over time. Corrosion thins the material and flex eventually weakens it and allows for separation typically at the lower end where corrosion is greatest. Link: http://dc65stc.blogspot.com/2010/07/faa ... sheet.html

There's a safety cable at the top over the bungees to limit their extension and hold if they fail. It's common to add a brace between the diagonal strut and rear gear leg to minimize flex of the diagonal under side loads. Mine has Atlee Dodge installed Piper-type lower gear leg braces added for ski operation where twisting torque from skis is common. There's also a potential option for a safety cable along the diagonal strut should it decide to separate under landing stress.

Gary

I build new wings for mine, using CVG fir for the spars, and got it signed off by a IA,. I remember being surprised I could do that legally. It flew a lot like my current S7, very nicely and sub 4 gph burn rates. 65 hp.

This discussion has become very productive and helpful, thanks to all for the intel.

Loved my old 85 HP T-Craft. Was able to fly it into Templeton Meadows (8600 ft), near Mt Whitney, and backpack from the airplane. Way back when those Sierra spots were still legal. Fortunately the grass wasn't too tall and I was somehow able to get out of ground effect and fly skinny ass home. It was a fun airplane. I loved to spin it. Tight for me at 6'2" and the vis out the sides was a bit tough.

Theres a few old Fleet Canucks around up in Canada as well. They are quite room with excellent visibility. Pretty nice performers for what you plan to do with them as well.

Great thread. I’ve always liked the classic lines of the Taylorcrafts.

Lest we forget, the venerable J-3 was designed by Mr. C.G. Taylor before he parted ways with Piper and started making Taylorcrafts.

The pic of the one on steroids with an O-320 looks great!

Hood River Oregon have a great collection of Taylorcraft, early cubs and I think all the L birds. Cool to see the development.

courierguy wrote:Spotted last year at the Carey Id. spring fly-in breakfast. A heavily modified T-Cart, in the exp category I believe (must be??) 0-320 powered, totally bad ass! It's owner said it's performance was great, but he was getting tired of 8-10 GPH fuel burns, especially when i told him mine were typically 3-4. All depends on your mission of course.

That looks like the one my friend Randy built... the wing tips are definitely his design... last I seen of that bird it was on 8:50’s...

Brian


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Mapleflt wrote:Has anyone in the group seen or have intimate knowledge of operating a Taylorcraft off the beaten path

Swirly Girl, duh!

Zzz wrote:

Mapleflt wrote:Has anyone in the group seen or have intimate knowledge of operating a Taylorcraft off the beaten path

Swirly Girl, duh!

Dis Girl vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzYexqeJejo

Needs VG's at da end https://youtu.be/bzYexqeJejo?t=400

Gary

PA1195 wrote:
Needs VG's at da end https://youtu.be/bzYexqeJejo?t=400

Gary

Nope. Needs a competent pilot!



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Zane
Hammer

Not me to judge what but never use aileron to lift a stalled or unexpected dropping wing, especially against an opposite wing lifted by a gust...always first use rudder away from the dropped wing against the high one. Has to be learned and practiced via muscle memory like in a falling leaf maneuver.

https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly ... eaf-stall/ Every Flight Review should include this training.

Gary

Hey guys,
I'm surprised no one dug up this thread showing what T-Carts are capable of:

https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/65-hp-heck-yea-9970

I felt compelled enough to finally stop lurking and get registered just so I can post the link.

First post so here's a quick hello & intro. I've been lurking since 2007 when I bought my first plane, a 1946 Cessna 140 based out of KSDM. Three years later the girlfriend decreed that I needed a bigger plane so I bought a 1953 D35 Bonanza (w/ Baron wheels & tip tanks). Now three boys later we are looking to upsize again. The 207 might be an option but the high DA at our current airport (KFLY) may limit its utility.

I've thoroughly enjoyed this site and appreciate all the work Zane puts in and the contributions by all BCP members. Thanks everyone, thread hijack over.

Cheers,
Ernie

The youtube of Pops Dory climbing the T Craft dead stick is a good one. I had a '40 BL65 in the '80's. Perfect airplane at the time for my shallow pockets. The 65 Lycoming would probably only produce 65 hp if it had a shot of nitrous but they are smooth nice sounding engines.If I was wanting a TCraft now the F19 would be my choice.

PA1195 wrote:Not me to judge what but never use aileron to lift a stalled or unexpected dropping wing, especially against an opposite wing lifted by a gust...always first use rudder away from the dropped wing against the high one. Has to be learned and practiced via muscle memory like in a falling leaf maneuver.

https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly ... eaf-stall/ Every Flight Review should include this training.

Gary

What if you're not in a stalled condition because you're holding it on, tail high, to build up speed? Then the gust lifts a wing?

I get the high AOA condition use of rudder, and when a wheel is on the ground, obviously rudder is paramount. But in response to a gusty wing lift at low AOA? Kinda just...everything? In the video of Swirly Girl, the gust seems to have lifted the left wing, and zooming in shows a pretty hard right rudder as you suggest. He also then swerves to the right a little. So, trying to stay out of the water as long as possible while staying at low AOA to build speed to fly... seems he did ok?

Zzz wrote:...What if you're not in a stalled condition because you're holding it on, tail high, to build up speed? Then the gust lifts a wing?

I get the high AOA condition use of rudder, and when a wheel is on the ground, obviously rudder is paramount. But in response to a gusty wing lift at low AOA? Kinda just...everything? In the video of Swirly Girl, the gust seems to have lifted the left wing, and zooming in shows a pretty hard right rudder as you suggest. He also then swerves to the right a little. So, trying to stay out of the water as long as possible while staying at low AOA to build speed to fly... seems he did ok?

I can't criticize Andrew's thoughts and approach to the situation as I wasn't there. Run the video you took with the slowest motion speed YouTube offers (O.25 in the Setting menu): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzYexqe ... u.be&t=400 Back it up, go forward, stop, and evaluate what you see.

As far as the rudder while still in ground contact there are limits to what can be done versus ground track and side loads on the gear. I'm not sure what was his intended ground track rudder wise but it was wagging left and right until the right wing lifted. When slowed in replay we see his attempt to mainly pin tires on the bar, and perhaps as an unintended consequence the right wing with down aileron lifted first...wind gust? higher lift and AOA outboard? His call as I don't know which direction the wind was predominately from prior to and during takeoff.

It then appears he neutralized the ailerons, dropped the left briefly, then reset neutral and used right rudder after the left tire quit skidding left (it's rolled over some) and went airborne. He had bar left when the right wing first lifted. Good save at the end and nice documentary. Must have been fun on a nice day.

One common failure for Taylorcraft gear is via repeated excessive side load compression. The diagonal strut on this plane has the mid-span reinforcement but the lower end is susceptible to internal corrosion and requires frequent inspection for debris and trueness.

Gary

Somewhat related but tangential is the AD for Taylorcraft lower strut attach points. My [kinda] neighbor Dave Wiley died in an accident teaching floats on the Willamette River about 12 years ago. He was with a student and landed, took off again, and at about 100' AGL the strut let go and folded a wing. They fell out of the sky and the impact to water killed them both.

Supposedly that attach point was covered by fabric and not easily inspected. It became an AD for inspection and I think (all?) Taylorcraft models are subject.

Ok we can go there:

Dave Wiley RIP: https://vb.taylorcraft.org/forum/taylor ... lane-crash and https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Repor ... L&IType=LA It was an owner maintained aircraft and strut fitting failed not the struts.

Addressing lower strut attach fitting potential corrosion issues: https://www.taylorcraft.org/docs/TCRAFT ... 07-002.pdf and https://www.taylorcraft.org/docs/2008-09-18.pdf

Lift strut corrosion issues: https://www.taylorcraft.org/docs/Taylor ... 7-001B.pdf and https://www.taylorcraft.org/docs/2007-16-14.pdf The TCDS holder/factory decided to push this as a means of profit according to those that know the situation after Wiley's fatality. No struts have failed from what I've read. Wag-Aero and Airframes Alaska sell AMOC replacements that terminate the AD.

Gary