Recently I was asked if I wanted to ferry a 185 to Alaska from the western US. I decided I would, and started looking at weather, smoke, fuel, etc... I spoke with the new owner about dates, fees, insurance and such. I spoke with the broker about the airplane, its location, hours, maintenance etc... After specific maintenance questions, the broker finally sent me a link so I could see the log books.

I spent a fair amount of time going through the logs back to the last overhaul, 37 years ago. In those 37 years there were about 600 hours put on the plane. One pretty big wreck, some smaller damage, and some general maintenance. At first glance it did not look too bad, quite a few new parts over the years. There were a few missing annuals, the last 10 years had about that many hours put on it, with a few years with zero hours on the tach. The big wreck about 15 years ago resulted in the left wing, horizontal, an elevator, a wheel half, and outboard gear support replacement. And a spinner replacement. However, there was NO mention in any log book of prop strike at that time. No mention of whether or not it was just the cone that was replaced or the backplate, or both. The engine logs showed 2 spark plugs being replaced about 10 years ago, but no other spark plug mention, so I assume the plugs were original to the overhaul 37 years and 600 hours ago. The transponder was last current in 2023. There was no annual in 2025 and the tach showed 1.1 hours since 2024. In pictures there is what looks like questionable repairs to the fuselage above the left gear box up to the windshield, where around the upper door hinge it looks like a doubled skin.

I was told that the new owner and his mechanic had done an annual on it about a month ago, that a borescope showed rust on the cylinder walls where the rings had sat. And that one lifter could be seen with the borescope through the oil filler where the lifter "didn't look new, but wasn't bad", whatever that means. I asked the owner, who I found out later was involved with the annual, what work had been done during the annual. I was instructed to talk to the mechanic, during that phone call I asked what was found during the annual and what work was done. I was told that there were NO problems found. The oil was said to be dark, and had "been in there a while" (since 2024 and 1.1 tach hours), oil and filter were changed. I was told the plugs had been cleaned and gapped, and that all compressions were "good". A big deal was made by the mechanic that he had verifed the ELT battery was current, and that it was a 406, "Because you have to have a 406 to fly thought Canada". I asked about the 600 hour plugs, and was told that "looked good". I asked what kind of cylinders were on it, the mechanic responded that he didn't know. At that point the discussion of what work had been done was over, no more information of work done was provided. The mechanic suggested that I check a bag and bring a set of tools with me, and that I should fly it around for a "couple hours" before I headed north. The next morning I get a voice mail from the owner, with a touch of attitude, asking if I was still going to ferry it. During that conversation I was told that every other pilot they had talked to bailed at the last minute. I had said that I had concerns and wouldn't get it very far from a road, but I was still in. I asked why they did NOT test fly it, the owner had told me they "ran out of time", the mechanic said it was an insurance issue. They had said that they had intended to fly it back themselves. Neither one of them, nor anyone else to my knowledge has flown it since the annual. The log books are in the plane, and there are no entries since 2024 in any log. A couple hours after my last phone call with the owner, I sent a text to him asking if he had the new registration yet, or if he was going to rely on the bill of sale. Two days later I have not received an answer.

I went through the logs again, looking for anything I may have missed or perhaps misread. I thought about the texts and conversations with the owner, mechanic, and broker. Something just seems off, little inconsistencies, dodging questions about maintenance, avoiding describing any work, no squawks of any kind. It seems like at the very least that there is information being withheld.

I finally decided that I didn't feel like practicing real emergencies over remote Canadian backcountry.

What would You do?

I forgot to mention, the airplane has lived its life withing 40 miles of the Pacific Ocean.

Are you maybe asserting too much "buyer" scrutiny? Or do you really feel concern that the aircraft is unsafe?

I've flown rentals that were probably way worse condition and objectively unsafe without thinking twice about it. But evaluating aircraft to buy? I might as well be scrubbing in for a microsurgery. I'm losing friends over it.

I would only fly this airplane around the pattern, and then only after an extended ground run and inspection. For an airplane that's been so inactive for so long, why not change the plugs, oil and filter, put 10 hours on it around the local area, then change the oil and filter and check everything again? That could eliminate all kinds of questions, If 10 hours of flying expense is a dealbreaker, then the owner can't afford the airplane. I find it strange that they're not doing some current flying and inspections before turning it loose for a long journey.

There are a lot of time builders out there in the "Ferry Pilot" world. Let em have the hero moment.

MTV

Please do not infer my post as disrespect, I tend to speak 'matter of factly' often unpopularly.

These airframes are dirt simple. So a 100hr (just an inspection, not repairs) should take to most of Friday morning. The engines are '30's tractor technology, with absolutely no black magic involved. the rest of Friday and a few hour Saturday, should nip that end in the bud. Again, no repairs, just verifying everything is as it should be, or what it needs to get that way.

After that, addressing fuel, lube, and minor concerns should have you packing your bags and heading out by Sunday.... IF .... you are qualified, and equipped to do all that.

If you are not,

... and here's the important part. If you are not qualified to do all that, then indeed you are 'Still Learning' (certainly nothing wrong with that) and this is the wrong place to be doing that. Forget the http://www... forget Youtube, AI, or any other BS you read on a screen. Somebody telling you, 'ya I'd fly it' or 'no it's a POS death trap' is absolutely meaningless.

I agree with Mike, this 'flying for a living' gig tends to make people do things they really shouldn't, to try and build 'meaningful' hours. BTDT, and for reasons unbeknownst to me survived...
If that tee shirt had fit you, you wouldn't have been here posting up, you would have just saddled up young dumb and blind. So either you know you probably should pass, but still have it tugging at your heart, or you just enjoy trolling.

Take care, Rob

More than anything else, pilots are risk managers. I have a saying I use when I am trying to decide something... "start at the hearing and work backwards."

It isn't just your life on the line. It's also your ticket, your reputation, your money if something goes bad and you are held responsible by shady operators, and of course your time.

This would be an easy call for me.

I've given this a bit of thought too.
To the best of my knowledge, the most dangerous part of every airplane I've flown has been me. I'd like to generally keep it that way.
Logbooks certainly can tell a story and can absolutely have red flags that would keep me grounded. But - you can't fly logbooks.

I'm trying to architect a second career as an independent A&P with the idea that jobs like this could be of interest to me. The major caveat will be that I'm not flying an airplane that I can't inspect. Doesn't mean I need to sign the annual, but if however many hours of my time to take a look at everything critical isn't worth it to the owner then they clearly don't value my life as much as I need them to.

I'm also not going to do stuff like this for cheap. If someone wants an airplane ferried for cheap, they can see if they'll get a hotshot who likes gambling. I don't. Also worth noting, if something really does need fixed on the airplane getting it to AK isn't going to make that fix cheaper.

I'm also thinking of the story of Raptor aircraft. I watched that story develop with a keen interest in the psychology of it. Dunning-Kreuger was thick. The designer hired a test pilot crew who came in and did a pretty thorough analysis of everything from the design and construction to the personalities involved. Ended up taxi testing a bit but had a punch list the developer wasn't willing to tackle. He ended up flying it a few times before crashing the pig in a cornfield. Test pilots tend to bring their ego with them, but gotta know when to check it and say no.

As for this airplane, based on what you've said can't say whether I would or wouldn't fly it. Old spark plugs don't scare me, and I've flown some stuff that looks a bit scruffy. But if an owner balks at the possibility I see the aircraft and rather than fly it simply produce an inspection report we might have problems. An inspection report in Eugene OR is a lot cheaper than a blown oil pressure line in Whitehorse.

I made the decision not to take the job more so because of the communications I had with the owner and his mechanic than the airplane itself. To Zane's point, I told myself more than once that I wasn't buying it, I was maybe going to fly it. It was not a nice specimen of a 185, even with low total time, it was more of a polished turd. I do believe the plane would probably have made it to Alaska without any significant problems, but still not a great idea to not get some real time on it before making that trip.
I had told the owner last Saturday that I was going to do it. But the lack of response about the registration was the last red flag for me. I was not going to fly an airplane across an international border twice without a registration or a bill of sale. But, the underlying unease was that the more communication I had with those two, the less I trusted them. These two guys are not newbies, the owner is an Alaska outfitter whose been flying forever, the mechanic works for him as his mechanic and pilot. Little things they said, and how they said them made me feel like they were not being truthful and or withholding information. The longer it went, the more likely I thought it would be that I would get thrown under the bus if anything happened. I never believed the story that the reason they had not test flown it because they ran out of time. Two guys make the trip to Oregon to buy a 185 and fly it back but after doing an annual on it they don't have time to even test fly it, if they had intended to fly it back they should still have a couple of days at least. They did an annual, but never did a log entry for it.

I believe the engine has corrosion, but I don't think that would take it out of the air in under 20 hours. Plugs were old, but that's not likely to take a plane out of the air. A rough running engine due to crappy plugs might make me take a different route, or find someone with tools and plugs to install. Crappy repairs to the carry through and crappy gear box repairs wouldn't take it down either. Many of little things could come up, but might not. An unreported prop strike 40 or 50 hours back could take it out of the air, especially since it was not a VAR crank. I got the feeling that if I got it halfway there and i deemed it no longer safe to fly without some work, that I would have been left holding the bag. Or if it got impounded at Merrill customs because I didn't have proof of ownership I would not have "delivered" it because it didn't get it to Birchwood and again be left holding the bag.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but in 35 years as a framing contractor, I have some experience in people trying to stiff me. You can see it coming with they way people speak, and behave. I don't need the money, and I've got plenty of work to do here, but for some reason I was excited to do it.

I think you made the right choice. The huge red flag is Annual completed but no log book entry!! I suspect the Annual was not performed by an IA and therefore not really an Annual. With no logbook entry the plane is not legal to fly.
DENNY

StillLearning wrote: Maybe I'm paranoid, but in 35 years as a framing contractor, I have some experience in people trying to stiff me. You can see it coming with they way people speak, and behave. I don't need the money, and I've got plenty of work to do here, but for some reason I was excited to do it.

This is probably your strongest point in the case. Good job using your spidey sense.

Zzz wrote:

StillLearning wrote: Maybe I'm paranoid, but in 35 years as a framing contractor, I have some experience in people trying to stiff me. You can see it coming with they way people speak, and behave. I don't need the money, and I've got plenty of work to do here, but for some reason I was excited to do it.

This is probably your strongest point in the case. Good job using your spidey sense.

Welcome to THAT club. I’ve learned the gut NEVER lies after 40 years in the construction business.

You made the right choice.
Sounds like a Sh1t Show. Flying that hangar queen to Alaska would most likely have been an adventure to say the least and that is the least worrysome part of the deal. Guy buys a 185, goes down to check it out, but doesn't have time to fly it back, or even test fly it Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Was there a bill of sale? Is it even his? sounds like more than a few "wait a minute" moments
Sounds like he is looking for someone stupid enough to fly it up there and if you could not make it, it would be on you, If you did make it, upon arrival, there would suddenly be a dispute about the terms of the "deal" leaving you to fight it out in court or just walk away with another life lesson.

Unless there has been a recent rule change, a bill of sale and a temporary registration do not suffice for international flights with N-registered aircraft. You need an actual registration.

DENNY wrote:I think you made the right choice. The huge red flag is Annual completed but no log book entry!! I suspect the Annual was not performed by an IA and therefore not really an Annual. With no logbook entry the plane is not legal to fly.
DENNY

This!! You made the right choice not flying this plane. Why would they come do an inspection and not make an entry before heading home? Lots of red flags in this story for sure.

Agree, I was thinking the same.