Hafast wrote:I fly this one fairly regularly for my boss, and the elevator is very effective at minimum speeds. If you want any close up pictures for engineering purposes let me know. By the way, this plane is for sale, so you could just fly it away instead of building one.

I appreciate the offer for pictures Hafast. I have the blue and white H250 available to me. Helio Courier is too good to ignore in the development of a STOL plane.

Hafast wrote:I fly this one fairly regularly for my boss, and the elevator is very effective at minimum speeds. If you want any close up pictures for engineering purposes let me know. By the way, this plane is for sale, so you could just fly it away instead of building one.

I appreciate the offer for pictures Hafast. I have the blue and white H250 available to me. Helio Courier is too good to ignore in the development of a STOL plane.

A guy I know bought an Antonov AN-2 figuring to do some back-country freighting (Idaho, etc) with it, but since it was registered experimental-exhibition (not type-certificated in this country) he legally couldn't do it.

A friend...actually my former boss's son... Bought a new AN2 in Poland. Watched it being built. Had it ferried to Felts Field. To maintain Polish registration he had to pay for a Polish A&P to do the annuals......keeping the aircraft certified. This was 20 years ago... Don't know if he still owns it?
Mark M.

m_moyle wrote:A guy I know bought an Antonov AN-2 figuring to do some back-country freighting (Idaho, etc) with it, but since it was registered experimental-exhibition (not type-certificated in this country) he legally couldn't do it.

A friend...actually my former boss's son... Bought a new AN2 in Poland. Watched it being built. Had it ferried to Felts Field. To maintain Polish registration he had to pay for a Polish A&P to do the annuals......keeping the aircraft certified. This was 20 years ago... Don't know if he still owns it?
Mark M.

A kit-build plane also is Experimental and thus could not fly for money. So a kit built bush plane must stay as a privately used aircraft...that said, setting up a kit can allow for wide spread "prototyping" leading up to certification.

Like many others, I am really enjoying this thread.

Can anyone share their thoughts about "winglets" and what role, if any, they might have on airfoil design for bushplanes.

I posted a thread on another website a long time ago, but there was not much response. Since some of the discussion here is on using carbon fiber, I got to thinking about my winglet question again.

http://www.ransclan.com/forums/showthread.php?3224-Rans-S20-Wing-Specs-A-Comparison-to-Other-Designs

( if the above does not open up try this:)

http://www.ransclan.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3224.html

"Mr. Winglet", at least for big jets, is Joe Clark, who I met the other day. The next time I see him (I was invited back, go figure) , after we get some snow and I get the skis on, I'll ask him. My guess is not worth the weight and complexity, not to mention for me anyway they'd get in the way, as I only have a 10' high hangar door. http://www.aviationpartners.com/company.html

Wingtip vortices are the biggest contributor to induced drag, which is why planes can fly slower and accelerate quicker in ground effect. The ground doesn't allow wingtip vortices to fully develop.

In cruise I bet they'd be worth a few knots, depending on how effective the design is. I wonder if the benefits are noticeable in slow flight / high Reynolds numbers?

I'm not an engineer, but i believe that in cutting the vortices, the winglets are essentially adding wing area. Some crop dusters could chime in on this. You see a lot of thrushes that add them on, and from the guys I've talked to, they definitely make a difference.

A1Skinner wrote:I'm not an engineer, but i believe that in cutting the vortices, the winglets are essentially adding wing area. Some crop dusters could chime in on this. You see a lot of thrushes that add them on, and from the guys I've talked to, they definitely make a difference.

Winglets yes create such an affect. Some equations peg the addition of winglets (the older sharp ones not the swooping modern design) at increasing the "effective" Aspect Ratio by 1.2 to 1.5.

My favorite 2 points about winglets:
1) The Rutan Voyager suffered a very small performance penalty by losing its winglets on its round-the-world flight...winglets on that plane were just about useless! Think about its AR....
2) You don't see winglets on pylon racers. Many very intelligent people (Skunk Works/Scaled Composites types) have done the math and determined winglets are not useful at increasing speeds around the course. Fast planes do not have winglets.

Winglets have proven their worth for cross country however. Lear was the first to try them and gained double digit % fuel burn drops over the straight cut tip!

For STOL/bush flying applications, I think it functions more as an aero fence at the end of the wing guiding the airflow over the outer wing section.

And, the winglets on spray planes are more about spray pattern control than about performance. And, on some of those airplanes, they shorten the wing life limit.

MTV

Get a Straight Tail 182 "For all the right reasons"! (I stoll that from Tim )

Any thoughts from operators on rear facing windows, as featured on the C206 and some others?

Are they useful, or an unnecessary complication during manufacturing with no real benefit?

Only real advantage I see is to look at the rudder when checking flight control action prior to takeoff.

Sometimes when flying with other aircraft they might help you keep track of them... Otherwise I seldom miss having a rear window, I have done about 50% of my hours with one, and the latest 50% without.

I would miss my skylight for mountain ops. The visibility really pays off when I am maneuvering at low level in a valley trying to suss out a new spot. Also, passengers all seem to love it - "it feels like a helicopter".

Hey looking forward to seeing your dream come to fruition.

Can I be your Rocky Mountain region dealer?

Hey Halfast, what tires you got on the Helio? One of my neighbours has one but seems reluctant to join me in the backcountry, harder to push around than my 7GCBC.

Another neighbour just traded his ABW Scout for a Siai-Marchetti 1019M. I'll try catch him on a sandbar to see how he likes it.

soyAnarchisto wrote:Hey looking forward to seeing your dream come to fruition.

Can I be your Rocky Mountain region dealer?

I have a long way to go, but absolutely Soy!

Those S-M "turbine Birddogs" look like they'd really kick ass. I believe Cessna did hang a turbine on an L19 birddog for R&D purposes but it never went into production, probably cuz the military bought up a bunch of O2 mixmasters for FAC duty in Vietnam.

Karmutzen wrote:Hey Halfast, what tires you got on the Helio? One of my neighbours has one but seems reluctant to join me in the backcountry, harder to push around than my 7GCBC.

Another neighbour just traded his ABW Scout for a Siai-Marchetti 1019M. I'll try catch him on a sandbar to see how he likes it.

The Helio has 26" Goodyears on it now, we had a set of ABW 29s on it for a while a few years back.
And yes, your neighbor is right, the Helio that I fly is a bitch to push around, especially off-road, it has about 500 pounds on the tailwheel with nothing in it except fuel.

Hafast wrote:

Karmutzen wrote:Hey Halfast, what tires you got on the Helio? One of my neighbours has one but seems reluctant to join me in the backcountry, harder to push around than my 7GCBC.

Another neighbour just traded his ABW Scout for a Siai-Marchetti 1019M. I'll try catch him on a sandbar to see how he likes it.

The Helio has 26" Goodyears on it now, we had a set of ABW 29s on it for a while a few years back.
And yes, your neighbor is right, the Helio that I fly is a bitch to push around, especially off-road, it has about 500 pounds on the tailwheel with nothing in it except fuel.

That's what I've found too. You can't put the mains that far forward on a plane that long without having an extremely heavy tail. The Helio that I fly has 29s with Gar Aero adapters. Seems to work well. The plane is a truck and you dont't often push a truck around!

The Saia Marchetti Turbine Bird Dog is quite the handful in a crosswind, as all of the tail surfaces are enormous. A friend has one and looped it at a fairly low speed. He is definitely no slouch at the controls.

Diamond is planning to make a "tundra" version of this according to the article. Hmm...

http://flightclub.jalopnik.com/crazy-au ... thardigree