So for a guy coming across an older TriPacer PA20/22-160hp that's in great condition for a very very reasonable price (17k) I'm wondering what would some folks "Top STCs" would be...

I really like the idea of wing extensions, Trimmer seaplane doors (pilot side too [requires new fuel selector valve]), VGs, skylight STC from "Steve's Aircraft", toebrakes. That said.. I have no idea what that would cost... Tailwheel, Seaplane prop, etc... also really sweet but seem
even more expensive.

Any opinions/advice/top 5 STC and Pricing info would be greatly appreciated for someone who is quiet new at the prospect aircraft ownership/modification.

Thanks!

If this is the first aircraft you will own, then my top five STC's would be: gas, oil, filters, tires, and good insurance.

Do that for a couple years and then see how much you really want to spend on tweaking a perfectly flyable airplane into something other than what the aeronautical engineers designed it to be.

Hammer wrote:If this is the first aircraft you will own, then my top five STC's would be: gas, oil, filters, tires, and good insurance.

Do that for a couple years and then see how much you really want to spend on tweaking a perfectly flyable airplane into something other than what the aeronautical engineers designed it to be.

Echoing this. There’s always improvements that can be made, but get a plane and learn it and enjoy it before you tear it down. You’ll know what you want before you get to that point.

I very much agree with Hammer.

If you plan on flying floats then some STC's are more important than flying on wheels. Like items that improve thrust, reduce wing loading, offer better access, and lower stall speed-increase lift.

Gary

Well...if you get tired of flying it and want to rest a spell, there are myriad ways to spend money.

Have you seen this page we've worked on? https://backcountrypilot.org/knowledge- ... ifications

There are some good mods to be done, but they are not all trivial to implement. The Trimmer seaplane door one, and the Trimmer PA-18 gear conversion for example require quite a bit of fuselage modification around the cockpit. I do miss having a left side pilot door on a side-by-side aircraft.

The Steve's Aircraft skylight is a GREAT mod.

I'd love to switch to PA-18 tail feathers.

Anything that'll give you a little more wing. VGs seems good, though I don't have a lot of time in a Pacer without them.

Probably the best STC is the Bushmaster mod.

Hammer wrote:If this is the first aircraft you will own, then my top five STC's would be: gas, oil, filters, tires, and good insurance.

Do that for a couple years and then see how much you really want to spend on tweaking a perfectly flyable airplane into something other than what the aeronautical engineers designed it to be.

I agree with Hammer but I would add, before any of Hammers "STC's", a good set of shoulder harness's before first flight then add everything Hammer listed.

Kurt

Shoulder Harnesses and VG’s
Dave

I'll throw toe brakes in as well.

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Toe brakes on a Tri-Pacer are actually not the best thing... Mainly because the nose gear is a direct steering system with solid rods and the toe brakes do nothing to improve ground handling and steering... For good brakes on the tricycle gear you need to have Cleveland disks on the mains and a good booster style master cylinder...

On the flip side, you absolutely have to have toe brakes on a converted Pacer... And the only toe-brake systems that I recommend there are from Univair and Trimmer... The Williams toe brakes use Cessna 150 parts and actually reduce leg room...

My list in order:
Shoulder harnesses for safety.
Gascolator is a big safety item. Mainly firewall, the right side one only if the original is leaking.
Everything Hammer said.
VG's.
Skylight for head room and visibility.
Good brakes.
Svenns or Sullivan wing tips.
Light weight everything - Battery, starter, oil cooler, alternator, chuck the vacuum system, etc...
-20 conversion (Trimmer for bush flying, Univair or Raven for cruising)

Stuff not needed but cool
Left side door
PA-18 tail
0-360 engine conversion - Constant speed prop a bonus
MT prop
Bushmaster or Producer Mod (extended fuselage and wings)

Brian

d.grimm wrote:Shoulder Harnesses and VG’s
Dave

Why VG's?

Rickshaw84 wrote:older TriPacer PA20/22-160hp

Rick, it's kind of ambiguous whether this machine is converted to a taildragger yet or not. I'm assuming it's still a milk stool since you mention wanting toe brakes. That's just par for the course with a conversion.

The Trimmer conversion that utilizes PA-18 gear and Maule struts is the way to go. It's fairly invasive for the fabric though, which is why it's usually done during a full recover. Unless you personally have the skills and have a good relationship with a cooperative IA, prepare to pay a fair amount for the fabrication work.

Brian above knows his stuff... he is actually my IA for my converted Tri-Pacer.

Shoulder harnesses would be an excellent addition, but you are limited to fixed length/adjustable harnesses, not the cool inertia reel style we'd all like. I am, however, working on a solution to that.

Don’t follow my lead! The one where you buy the airplane, fly it for six months. Break off a gear leg...tell yourself your just going to fix the damage... then modify the piss out of it.. get side tracked, break both hands...then try to bust and ankle...might finish it this winter...


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Zzz wrote:….Shoulder harnesses would be an excellent addition, but you are limited to fixed length/adjustable harnesses, not the cool inertia reel style we'd all like. I am, however, working on a solution to that.

Why are you restricted to fixed harnesses?
If you meet certain FAA installation parameters, you can install inertia reels as a minor alteration, without an STC or field approval.
https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/harness_kits/
A buddy of mine installed some in his Pacer, mounted via tube clamps to the overhead structure.
Cub Crafters sells inertia reel harness / belt combos for what seems like a reasonable price.

First, I’m no expert on PA 20/22 airplanes. I’ve flown a few, but not a lot.

I am, however, somewhat of an expert on spending $$$ on modifying airplanes. Don’t ask how I got those qualifications.

If you want a good solid flying airplane, the Tri Pacer is hard to beat. That said, a quick glance at the list Brian posted would likely have the airplane “cost” up near the $80,000 mark. Brian was NOT suggesting you even consider all those mods, of course.

If you buy the plane, fly it a LOT till the first annual is due, take it to a good IA, and hold your breath.

When and if the IA says something like “good solid plane”, then and only then ask him or her about installing a Steve’s gascolator and MAYBE VGs, depending on your budget.

But before you do anything, install shoulder harness.

That first annual MAY reveal a few surprises, and you don’t want to start that with your bank account drained from mods.

MTV

hotrod180 wrote:

Zzz wrote:….Shoulder harnesses would be an excellent addition, but you are limited to fixed length/adjustable harnesses, not the cool inertia reel style we'd all like. I am, however, working on a solution to that.

Why are you restricted to fixed harnesses?
If you meet certain FAA installation parameters, you can install inertia reels as a minor alteration, without an STC or field approval.
https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/harness_kits/
A buddy of mine installed some in his Pacer, mounted via tube clamps to the overhead structure.
Cub Crafters sells inertia reel harness / belt combos for what seems like a reasonable price.

Not legally restricted. Limited functionally. The rear carrythrough (in the Pacer) is a suboptimal place to mount a shoulder harness of any kind, but especially a reel, because of the angle to the shoulders and the limited headroom. The Amsafe harness setups from CC enjoy a nice shallow angle when mounted in a tandem Cub, but face the same problem in a Pacer. You have to get creative, as apparently your friend has found.

I'm not very good at giving advice on flying planes, but I've learned a thing or two about spending money to modify them.

My advice is to buy a bird that has as many of your desired mods as possible. WAY cheaper to let someone else pay for them.

Starting with a clean bird and stacking up the mods is a ton of fun, but wildly improvident.

Like MTV says, "Ask me how I know."

Hammer wrote:Do that for a couple years and then see how much you really want to spend on tweaking a perfectly flyable airplane into something other than what the aeronautical engineers designed it to be.

Oh Hammer...

The only people disappointed when a PA-22 gets converted to a tailwheel config are the ones who can't (or won't) fly tailwheel. Even the engineers who designed the milk stool (probably only a memory to their grandchildren now) were embarrassed they had to cater to the market that wanted a nosewheel, and thusly molested their original design.

It's the Lord's work to return the PA-22 to a taildragger. Supposedly more converted PA-22s are flying than original PA-20s.

Despite what we want the question to be, in reading back over the OP, it appears he is asking specifically what are the best STC'd mods to a Pacer. Anyone know?

Zzz wrote:

Hammer wrote:Do that for a couple years and then see how much you really want to spend on tweaking a perfectly flyable airplane into something other than what the aeronautical engineers designed it to be.

Oh Hammer...

The only people disappointed when a PA-22 gets converted to a tailwheel config are the ones who can't (or won't) fly tailwheel. Even the engineers who designed the milk stool (probably only a memory to their grandchildren now) were embarrassed they had to cater to the market that wanted a nosewheel, and thusly molested their original design.

It's the Lord's work to return the PA-22 to a taildragger. Supposedly more converted PA-22s are flying than original PA-20s.

Despite what we want the question to be, in reading back over the OP, it appears he is asking specifically what are the best STC'd mods to a Pacer. Anyone know?

Zane, Zane, Zane........

I’m betting that Piper sold a shitload more Tri Pacers than they ever did Pacers. For that reason alone, I’m guessing those guys who designed that conversion were happy as pigs in you know what with that transition.

Nothing in the world wrong with a Tri Pacer.

MTV

mtv wrote:
Zane, Zane, Zane........

I’m betting that Piper sold a shitload more Tri Pacers than they ever did Pacers. For that reason alone, I’m guessing those guys who designed that conversion were happy as pigs in you know what with that transition.

Nothing in the world wrong with a Tri Pacer.

MTV

Haha....didn't say there was. They are a fine tricycle undercarriage aircraft with a nosegear much more durable than a 172.

Some of my favorite people own and fly Tr-Pacers, and it's very embarrassing when they land their 6x6.00s the same place I do with bushwheels. Still....Lord's work, Lord's work. Keep in mind this is all very tongue-in-cheek. Trike shaming feels good until you need to borrow the airport tractor to pull your wreck off the active.