trouble?

I'm being called out at my local airport for having too many vehicles around my hangar. It's true, I need to move some stuff out but I pay rent for the area they're parked on, I pay $1200/yr for 2500 sq. ft. of outdoor storage area.The guy that's cheezed hasn't flown for 20 years but has two hangars full of personal belongings (nothing remotely associated with aviation), he says what's inside the hangars is nobody's business. I'm not sure, I could move 4 vehicles in a matter of minutes, wheras he'd have a hard time explaining why he's there. What say ye? Should I assume he's right and move my crap quietly or tell him I'll join him in making our airport more FAA compliant by moving my stuff out when he moves an airplane in?

We have an A-hole like that at 63S, fact is he has a camp trailer that he stays in in the Hangar when he's in town, cheap place for him to keep his stuff and stay!
I think you have the right idea
What is in your lease? should spell it out!
Have fun GT

I researched this question about 5 years ago, so this may not be accurrate now. At that time if the airport recieved any federal funding your hanger could only be used to store airplanes in flying condition, airplanes that have a reasonal probabality of being restored to flying condition, and parts, tools, supplies, etc. to maintain or restore airplanes. no non-aviation use or storage is allowed, even temporary storage. enforcement is usually random, and done with an iron fist. good luck.

Thanks for the responses, we do get FAA grant money every now and then. It sounds like neither of us is going to be the poster boy for the Feds. I'm not feeling very motivated to clean up my act since he's as sinful in the eyes of the inspectors as I am. Do they have the authority to snoop in a private hangar?

I'm in the process of trying to save an airport here in Maryland. We have discovered that only 30% of the hangers house aircraft that are flying on a regular basis . Meanwhile people with flying aircraft would love to move in. It is very sad that there are people who occupy hanger space for non-aviation related business. These people kill small airports.

We will be coming down hard on those in our airfield who use hangers for cheap storage space. If you are a small airport you must rid yourself of this cancer, if you wish to exist. If not, you will fail and become the birth place for another housing development.

We will also be riding ourselves of the junk people store outside to include their old vehicles. We found that no one wishes to look at somebodys junk car or their other junk for that matter. They should leave it at their house. This stuff has no place in an airfield and the people who leave this stuff should have some compassion for their neighbors. How about a little courtesy?

Sorry for the passionate response.

Gee, sounds like another "Transplanted Californian" that's doing all the complaining

Haha . But Caldwell (KEUL) just went through this recently. The airfield was pretty much cleaned up from all junk. But, I kind of like looking at some of that junk. Especially if it's aviation related (aircraft parts, fuselages, ramp mummies, etc). Even some old vehicles are kind of neat laying around.

I agree too that the hangars should be only used for aviation related purposes.

I'm not a big fan of people storing non airplane stuff in hangars without having a real airplane in it also, while others are on a waiting list for a hangar. If there are only 6 airplanes on the airport and 20 hangars that's a different story. Management went around KRAL a few years ago looking for non airport related storage, I had to hide my still , kiddin.

58 Skylane

Do you happen to know how hard they hit poor old Holbrook?
I will bet a lot of "stuff" ended up over at Hubler.

Did they ever get his sort of white AN-2 inside a hanger or in his museum?

Hope to get back up there this year.
I know, some folks here would prefer I stay in CA.
But I have been flying up there longer than some of the youngsters here have been alive.
I actually get invitations and requests that I return.

Cheers

Chris C

wannabe wrote:58 Skylane

Do you happen to know how hard they hit poor old Holbrook?
I will bet a lot of "stuff" ended up over at Hubler.

Did they ever get his sort of white AN-2 inside a hanger or in his museum?

Hope to get back up there this year.
I know, some folks here would prefer I stay in CA.
But I have been flying up there longer than some of the youngsters here have been alive.
I actually get invitations and requests that I return.

Cheers

Chris C

Heard he still wants to get that AN-2 flying again. But I think there is talk about taking the wings off and moving the plane to Hubler by truck. That poor plane is getting a pretty good beating sitting outside. The fabric is starting to come off in some places. Gonna need a lot of work to get it flyable again.

Nosedragger wrote:Thanks for the responses, we do get FAA grant money every now and then. It sounds like neither of us is going to be the poster boy for the Feds. I'm not feeling very motivated to clean up my act since he's as sinful in the eyes of the inspectors as I am. Do they have the authority to snoop in a private hangar?

We just went through that excersize here in Jackson Hole.... As most of you know the airport sits in Grand Teton National Park so if you think rules are strict elsewhere you ain't seen nuttin yet... JAC gets millions yearly for airport improvements from the feds and when they came through last year for a "airport survey" they went in every hangar to look for non compliance items.. Needless to say all the snowmobiles, cars, trucks, jeeps, lawn furniture, christmas stuff, appliances, file cabinets, beds, woodstoves, clothes and stuff you cannot imagine was being stored in the hangars. The first reaction from the tenants was " you can't go into a private hangar".... Well, the hangars belong to the airport board and are leased to the FBO and they sit on Federal ground so by the time the NPS, Dept of the Interior, the FAA , the FBO and the airport board gave their short but but sweet " clean up or get the hell out" answer most tenants purged the hangars of non compliant items.. A few screamed bloody murder and left. I am also the AOPA ASN for JAC so I got it from all sides... Not a fun deal either... The sad part is there is a 10+ year waiting list for hangars here so those who are still here abide by the rules VERY closely... YMMV.

Ben.

I do not have a problem with someone storing extra's in a hanger if there is an airplane in it. What I do not like to see, is non-avaition items (automobiles, ect) stored outside, for the world to see. It just does not give one a good impression of the airport and is bad PR. If one would not want old cars stored in their own yard, why would they look any better sitting outside at an airport? My vote is to move the items that are sitting outside, it is the right thing to do.

Steve

As the new airport Manager at “L05” the answer to your question can come in many flavors. The most important question is who owns the airport property? If it’s not privet and most aren’t then they, county, city, state or who ever, is GOD and they make the rules and enforce what they want. This is usually done through the Airport Manager. IF the airport receives FAA funds and 98% do then the FAA can impose there rules as a qualifier to taking there money. But if your airport is a small one they will not waste any time coming buy to see if your doing what they want. They, the FAA leave the enforcement part up to the “Owner”. So what matters, is what’s in your hanger or property lease and who is enforcing it. Because of the Feds I know an airport manager that put in his lease that he has the right to inspect your hanger monthly to make sure you’re not doing or storing something that violates his rules. He did this to eliminate those people that were not storing airplanes. He now has 100% airplanes in all the hangers at his airport. Pretty drastic but a lot of airplanes that were outside on the ramp are now in hangers.

One last thought, Airport Managers can wheel a lot of POWER so be careful who you piss off even if your right.

Rick

Sage advise, thanks all. Obviously, It seems I can't continue to do what I've been doing but I hope to convince the airport board that they also need to throw the bums out that are using hangers as storage sheds. The next meeting wants to discuss tapping all of us existing owners for money to install more power to a new hangar area. We have 25 hangars on the field and 11 planes, 7 are airworthy. If they 86'd the storage shed guys or traded them a storage shed, there would be a dozen hangars available for aviation use. My vehicles are easy to move and they aren't displacing aircraft so I think I have a fairly strong case. We shall see, half of the board is composed of said storage shed owners.

Nosedragger wrote:Sage advise, thanks all. Obviously, It seems I can't continue to do what I've been doing but I hope to convince the airport board that they also need to throw the bums out that are using hangers as storage sheds. The next meeting wants to discuss tapping all of us existing owners for money to install more power to a new hangar area. We have 25 hangars on the field and 11 planes, 7 are airworthy. If they 86'd the storage shed guys or traded them a storage shed, there would be a dozen hangars available for aviation use. My vehicles are easy to move and they aren't displacing aircraft so I think I have a fairly strong case. We shall see, half of the board is composed of said storage shed owners.

7 Airworthy planes out of 25 hangars... YUCK.....

And.... If half the board members have those "storage sheds" can you please video tape the next board meeting as that could make full length feature movie on the Comedy Channel. <G>

Ben.

If/when the airport authority applies for federal matching funds for airport improvements, they sign an agreement with the FAA. That agreement is going to contain specific language which REQUIRES that the airport be used only for aviation purposes.

I'd go to the city/county and ask for a copy of that contract, read its provisions very carefully, and come to the airport board meeting prepared to discuss its provisions.

That should get some attention.

Then, I'd start working on the airport owner to get aviation people on the board, and start trying to attract more airplanes to the airport.

And, lots of cars parked around a hangar are probably in violation of the contract as well. In any case, you may consider them to be great looking cars, but someone else might consider them to be junkers.

So, be prepared to move some of your cars. But, you are 100 % correct that hangars on an airport that has received federal aid dollars MUST be used only for aviation purposes, NOT as storage sheds. We just went through that with a fellow here who had three T Hangars rented, and had a fair number of airplane parts (virtually all totally wrecked, and not rebuildable), but mostly non aviation junk stored in all three. The airport manager leaned on him (there is a waiting list of airplane owners waiting for hangars) and he was told to move out. That's the way it's supposed to work. Lots of places to store your stuff OFF the airport. But, it turns out that at many airports, hangar rent on a per square foot basis is MUCH cheaper than any off airport storage facilities.....

MTV

The only item on the no storage rule I have a problem with is the one here in Santa Clara County (ca), Reid Hillview, is that they will not allow you to keep a bottle of portable oxygen in the hangar. You can store it inside the plane and it is ok, but if you want to take it out for a short flight, then it breaks their rules.

They even tried to make me give up a hangar when I would keep the plane at a tie down for while so it will be quicker and easier to get going. I have to move one of those, "best home builts made in America," Maul things out of the way and put it back in then reverse the process when I return. Too much effort for this old fahrt oon a hot summer day.

Nuff for now

it turns out that at many airports, hangar rent on a per square foot basis is MUCH cheaper than any off airport storage facilities.....

There lies the problem! These guys won't go to a storage facility because they won't spend the bucks.

How much fuel does junk use, NONE! Then the fuel cost goes up or revenue goes down. Politically the airport becomes week. Pilot activity is a good thing. When the community sees the pilots and the pilots buy lunch in local resturants, political clout is developed. When the neighbors don't see activity, but do see the hangers and airfield filled with junk they join the side of developers and whom ever can make the conditions better.

If your junk is too ugly for your home don't bring it down to the airfield.

I have no problem with non-aviation items in the hangar, as long as it also houses an airplane and doesn't endanger the other hangars in the row. Of course, I'm biased, because I have a lot of stuff in my hangar, besides my airplane. I do object to those who use hangars as storage sheds without any aviation-oriented use. But from the pilot's standpoint, the only item that is relevant is in the lease. What someone else's lease says or what the policies are at another airport is irrelevant.

Cary

O27 went through much the same thing. Lots of folks using hangars as personal storage. The airport commission finally got in gear and threw these folks out. I think they went a little overboard by saying we couldn't keep ANY non aviation items in the hangars. I could care less what some one has in his hangar as long as he also keeps an airplane in there too. One really good thing that is coming out of all the ruckus at our airport is that the trucking company that has been leasing one of the two FBO buildings on our field *might* get kicked out. Talk about a non aviation use. Sadly though they will be allowed to stay if no one else can be found to rent the FBO.

I agree 100% that anyone with a hangar should have a working airplane or one reasonably expected to be working at some point. Nothing more frustrating to ownership than long waiting lists to find a place to keep an airplane. And nothing gives developers more reason to shut an airport down than to have only a few airplanes coming and going to justify tying up all that prime real estate.

That said, read your lease agreement and make sure you're 100% in compliance before complaining, though. I can also see the airport coming down on you just as easily for having extra vehicles outside or even non-aviation items in the hangar. Try to frame your concerns to the management as concern for the airport and it's viability for the very reasons people have noted previously.

My agreement is pretty vague about what can be stored except I must have an airplane in it and only my vehicle in it if my airplane is in use.

Good luck.