obxbushpilot wrote: I was taught to use the flap handle technique and now that I have a taildragger with electric flaps...........

What kind of taildragger is that? Most of the ones I can think of are all johnson bar, except the Swift. Factory built anyways, I guess a lot of homebuilts have electric flaps & trim.

gbflyer wrote:This should be a good one!

GB

X2

What happened to ?

aktahoe1 wrote:I guess we need to agree to disagree....

Food for thought and a slightly different view on the subject.

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182089-1.html


And often requires a slightly more advanced technique than the "Private Pilot Syllabus" teaches.

I just disagreed is all...its all good. This is one of those topics that can go on forever. Sort of like 3 point landings vs wheel landings.

http://www.aero.com/publications/norcal/art1.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAt6aMPG ... re=related

Here's the opinion from someone who actually instructs, makes a living, teaching in the in "Backcountry".

http://www.canyonflying.com/takeoffs.html

Aren't these forums great! I Love it! You guys are a wealth of information. Being a newbie here (and a pilot since '74) I trust I can share a bit of information and experience in addition to learning a lot from all of you. As pilots, we never stop learning...and that's a GOOD thing.

From all the posts to my original one, it's apparent that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Clear skies...
Doug

aktahoe1 wrote:I guess these guys have no experience...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm3kH5t5CCM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aGolOOo ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPSElw8q ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RQGSVf- ... re=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Mqau9V ... re=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbozrPXhGNw&feature=fvsr

Experience is where you find it...

The one thing those guys have in common (that our original posters video did not BTW), is that they are all extremely light, over powered, and at sea level, on a cool day

Kevin, Big screen it, almost every Cessna in the heavy touring set minimal flaps and then dropped on the roll < I will bet the farm that if the cessna flap handle was easier to reach they wouldn't even bother setting the little bit they had..Bush class? I can't think of anyone who sets flaps prior? oh and BTW next time your at Valdez, ask Paul Klaus if (he's very personable) if he treats the stol competition like he treats a flight with a load and paying customer...

As a neophyte, I will not bang my chest on hours, time in type, or skill... I simply base my opinion on the experience of the folks I fly with. Most are in the 29K hr. - 30k hr. range of ag time. I can think of no other flying profession that requires more landing / take off cycles, at gross or well beyond, than them, can you?

aktahoe1 wrote:
Not to mention from the Syllabus that you should have followed when getting your private certificate:

The good news here, is that after I earned that 'license to learn', following these basic guide lines to staying alive... I went on to keep learning. The best part is that I continue to do so!

Now I am off to work... tonight I will set full flaps for every other take off. I only have about 20 loads, but all are near or at the same weight... Maybe I will be in for a surprise?

Like someone once said...it you want to find it on the internet you can.

I like my brakes while bringing the power up. I have protection on the horizontal stab for that very reason. Not to mention I like getting the engine up to speed prior to the roll and the tail off the ground.

Now, if I am in a rocky area or loose debris, I would probably roll to run up speed to lesson the impact of flying debris, but by the most part, tail is up, engine is up, brakes are pressed and then I'm rolling. I comes down to the situation at hand.

Just like, some landings are meant to be 3 point and others are meant to wheel it.

Back to the original post...I still think the technique is not correct for the tike. Its not paved. I have always thought grass to be soft and decreasing your ground roll by at least 10%. The nose wheel should have been up. You cannot tell me that the puddle in the video does not make it soft (not to mention it looks like there is a pot hole there) Its not pavement. Grass grows on dirt. Water makes wet grass and dirt soft.

Keep bringing it. I get my plane back tomorrow so I am here....at least thinking about flying....

Rob-

Those guys all have 20 degrees of flaps. Even the guy in the bird dog looking plane (Yes I know its not a bird dog) The red 185- N70253, I believe is Wrangel mtn air (could be wrong). He was the winner of the class. Klaus flies into Cordova weekly. I cannot get enough info from him. Actually see him often given my winter location.

I do agree with the license to learn...thats the best part of flying. Will stick with my last post. No sense beating a horse. Too many options and variables.

aktahoe1 wrote:Rob-

Those guys all have 20 degrees of flaps. Even the guy in the bird dog looking plane (Yes I know its not a bird dog) The red 185- N70253, I believe is Wrangel mtn air (could be wrong). He was the winner of the class. Klaus flies into Cordova weekly. I cannot get enough info from him. Actually see him often given my winter location.

I do agree with the license to learn...thats the best part of flying. Will stick with my last post. No sense beating a horse. Too many options and variables.

Kevin, all in good fun... I don't think the red wagon is Kellys, I think Don Welte was flying Kellys plane... 8209U...
Flaps 20 on a Cessna to start... yes, otherwise you just can't reach them

3pt vs wheelie... flaps set or not... the only reason these conversations go on is because some folks refuse to believe flying is not a one size fits all

Now i really better get a move on

Shit!, don't quit yet....nobody has thrown in the "J" turn yet.....or if it works better turning left or right .

Rob wrote: oh and BTW next time your at Valdez, ask Paul Klaus if (he's very personable) ...

Rob

Almost died laughing with that one -- what a set up.

BTW, both Don W. and Kelly with WMA fly in and out of my airstrip regularly and never have I seen either one, or any other pilot with WMA, for that matter, step on their breaks and run up their engines to full power as a prelude to ground roll for takeoff. They may do it under certain situations, but then there is no right way all the time...

This is one of the reasons I fly a Piper and not a Cessna whatever ... I just hate that slooooooooow Cessna electric trim ... and love my Piper johnson bar flaps.

Everybody's got their own recipe for flyin' their bird, but here's what I was taught, and works fine for me:

On a soft field I don't run up the power to full throttle with brakes locked - I don't want to pull up more stones and crap through my prop from the surface than necessary - a real concern on a typical backcountry airstrip; instead, just smoothly apply power like any takeoff.

And "testing" your engine's power is done during runup, at far lower RPM than full takeoff power. If you can't trust your engine after a normal runup, then your bird doesn't belong in the backcountry - it belongs in the shop. In my humble opinion.

Before starting the takeoff roll, start out with one notch of flaps (10 deg in a Cherokee), and for gosh sake don't pull the yolk back all the way to your lap and suffer all that extra drag .. the point is to get the aircraft speed up to rotation airspeed ASAP while on the ground ... besides, if you're worried about the nosegear, I just remember that the Cherokee nosegear is just as stout as its main gear, and is not a "training wheel" like the C-birds are stuck with (another reason I strongly prefer Pipers). So let the nosegear take whatever the runway dishes out, and the idea is to accelerate to flying speed at max rate (meaning neutral yolk, or only slightly back) ... then about 5 mph below rotation speed, "pop" the second notch of flaps (25 deg) and she's airborne, just like that!

And then don't forget to drop the flaps after accelerating out of ground effect - one notch at a time - as soon as a positive ROC is established at Vy or greater. Otherwise the climb rate sucks.

I'm with the others here who don't practice "yolk back in your lap" soft field takeoffs ... that seems a surefire way to dissipate way too much of the energy produced by the engine. Once you've got some airspeed built up, then you're in business!

Duane

mountainmatt wrote:

gbflyer wrote:This should be a good one!

GB

X2

X3

And when all said and done..........

I cant stop laughing at that 58! Nice one....

I am still holding my brakes depending on conditions of the field and how tall the trees are at the end.

Most of the time we are on unpaved strips we use a combination of short and soft field techniques.


The yoke should be back any time you are on any runway not paved.
The propeller will be a few inches further away from the dirt and rocks.
Also the nose gear on a 182 is kind of wimpy. the less pressure on it the better.

That nose gear on the original video took a pounding.

Dropping the flaps on the roll is good if the runway is not soft.
It will save you some drag from the start of the takeoff roll until you reach flying speed, especially when heavy.

If the runway is soft then put flaps in from the start.

Man, i gotta try that lock the brakes and gas it deal....! my brakes won't hold it at full blast, thank goodness...

i prefer to be rolling when entering any runway, especially soft, ramp it up slow,20 on the flaps, and keep the nose light...

put the nose down as soon as she lifts off, and hold it, keep the MP at a heat/power building 29", and then there is no

holding the climb back...flaps bk to 10 and you're gone!

This Video 182 is a "road hog" ---- need to get some action . I fly into and out of 1200 ft. strip at ranch and use 1/4 -1/3 length . Read and comprehend "Mt. Flying Bible" - Get Manual -Johnson Bar flaps with EZFLAP handle ,Lift reserve indicator ,SPORTSMAN STOL KIT . Keep weight centered on CG -lighter wing loading will help .