First time poster, love this site!
I’ve searched the site but haven’t been able to narrow it down. Here’s my situation:
I want to buy a quick build Bearhawk 4 place for my first plane. Only problem is my wife and I are saving for our “forever property” that we will be moving to after I retire from the Navy (in 6 years). So I wouldn’t even buy the Bearhawk until after we found our property and built our house...potentially 8 years from now. Then another two years to build! I can’t wait a decade to start flying my own plane.

I have started looking at planes that I can get for relatively cheap in the interim somewhere under $30k. Luscombe 8 or Piper cub are at the top of my list. I really prefer a stick and rudder since that’s what the Bearhawk is. I hear cubs are the best to learn how to be a great pilot, and I very well may go that route. I just wanted to check and make sure there aren’t other aircraft that might be a better option. So, cheap to buy and cheap to operate stick and rudder tail dragger is what I’m looking for. Any other ideas? Thanks!

Are you already a pilot? If so what kind of flying are you into?

I had the same constraints when I was in the market.

My solution was the Stinson 108.

The price is driven down by the Franklin engine. While I've definitely paid my dues in that arena, it allowed for the purchase of a platform that would have been unaffordable to me otherwise.

I'm definitely biased.

-g

Get over having to have a stick and buy a Pacer/Maule/Stinson or even a Cessna.

...says the guy that had to have a stick.[emoji51]

What you really need to do is figure out what your going to do with the airplane and go from there.

But to directly answer your question; I’m biased and would buy a Luscombe 8. They are a blast to fly, cheap to buy and own. They are also the “best training airplane for a 4-place BH” according to one of the original BH investors that helped get the kits going.

I only have 1 hour of experience in a Cub, a J3. After about 5 minutes I was bored from flying so slow I could see the grass grow and in enough pain from being crammed into the front seat that I have no desire to fly in one again...ever.

You might consider a Clipper or a myriad of EAB aircraft. It really depends on your mission.

A Champ/Citabria is a great option as well. Cheaper then most Cubs and still great stick and rudder planes.

Pacers from my biased perspective are the best bang for the buck. Bought mine for $18k six years ago. Bought a 406 MHZ transponder and a Scandia mode C transponder. Flew the piss out of it....5.7 gallons per hour average. Unfortunately the right gear leg busted... I’ve restored the fuselage and am waiting on a set of rebuilt through primer wings. They’re sitting in Bethel waiting on a small heavy items to justify flying a Casa to Platinum with a 400 pound wing crate that fills the airplane...

The other airplane that was on my list of maybes...Taylorcraft. Basically an underpowered supercub...maybe more like a PA18-95.
Was flying this 1957 PA22 conversion to PA20...for a while. Rebuilt the 160 hp engine..double puck brakes...alignment..and other small issues. Delivered to its owner a few weeks ago.. you can see the gear on the rebuilt Pacer in the back ground.




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around 30k you should look into a Kitfox. If it's just you and your wife they're great 2 place planes that are a LOT cheaper to maintain and operate compared to the standard aircraft. This will help you get more flying in and save money while you build you own. Also lets you get into the experimental world and do some maintenance on your own plane.

With a rotax you're burning auto gas at about 4 gallons. You'll get plenty of STOL out of it and they handle great.

A loan? Not my style either.

Do you expect your wife to fly with you? Will she sit in the back? Are you going to store this outside? Do you expect to be able to travel with this intermediate plane?

jcadwell wrote:A loan? Not my style either.

Do you expect your wife to fly with you? Will she sit in the back? Are you going to store this outside? Do you expect to be able to travel with this intermediate plane?

Loans on airplanes are not like loans on cars. They are more like loans on houses or other durable goods.
If it wasnt for a loan, I would have ever been able to buy my first airplane.
I think it's a great way to get flying on a manageable monthly payment without emptying your savings account.

I know absolutely nothing about this airplane. Could be a scam for all I know, but if I wasn't neck deep in other projects right now, I'd drive up to Dalton to have a look myself:

No radios or transponder, so I'd have to spend about the purchase price again for avionics to fly this in ATL airspace. But if you can get by without that stuff, it looks like a lot of fun for $10K.

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/for/d/rocky-face-1961-piper-colt-airplane/6882407710.html

Quicksilver with a BRS parachute. Paid $7500. New Rotax 582 Blue head $3500

Thanks for all the replies!

Bagarre: I am not licensed yet. I have flown a few times and am waiting until I get back from this next deployment to start training. My thought is to get the plane so I can train in it as well.

Jet966: I will look more into the Stinson 108, haven't looked into it at all yet. Thanks for the idea!

Whee: My idea for wanting to own a plane is backcountry flying, off-airport landing, remote camping and traveling. I feel the Bearhawk 4 place fits that bill pretty good, especially with a good cruise speed for traveling. I'd love to never commercially travel again, even if it means a few days trip to go across country. I am willing to sacrifice some of that stuff such as cruise speed and useful load in order to get experience now versus waiting. I didn't know a Bearhawk investor made that statement, but that makes me lean really far towards the Luscombe 8. I have read a lot of good things about that aircraft.

A1Skinner: I'll have to look more into the Citabria's to see how if it could fit the bill.

M_Moyle: I wish I could find a Pacer for $18k! Although the few I have seen have a yoke. Are there some models with a stick? Same with Taylorcraft, although I have seen some pretty good deals on those.

Hockeystud: I am very excited to build my own plane, and I wouldn't be nervous to fly in someone else's home-built, but I am not sure I would want to inherit any gremlins that come with one. Maybe I am way off, but I just foresee some weird gripes that would be traced back to some weird trick they set up that worked for them. Maybe I am thinking too much into it and it would probably be fine with a thorough inspection before purchase. It could be a great option, especially considering the ease of maintenance. I might reopen this door.

Jcadwell: Ya, trying to not do the loan deal. It's great to get people into flying as Bagarre said, but if I can avoid it I will. I will need to keep my debt/income ratio as good as possible for purchasing our forever home. I do expect my wife to fly with me, she really enjoys it. I hope to have a hangar and keep it stored inside. I do plan to travel with it, but I am ok with it being a less capable traveler in the interim.

Again, thanks for all the replies and good ideas, I've got some more research to do. I think as it sits I am leaning toward a Luscombe 8 or possibly a kitfox if there is a good deal to be had in my price range. Admittedly I haven't searched for those yet, so I am not sure what they are going for right now.

Super Stinson and you wont have to spend the money or time on a Bearhawk....

Jimbo2601 wrote:Super Stinson and you wont have to spend the money or time on a Bearhawk....

Exactly!!

Cessna 150 or 172, cherokee 140. Get your license in it then figure out if you want or need anything more. Going to be harder to find a instructor for an obscure fabric tail dragger and if you do, you are going to lose alot of training days when the wind isn't blowing light and right down the runway. Plus more expensive insurance and maintenance cost. Fabric also doesn't fare well left outside.

Mark Y. wrote:Cessna 150 or 172, cherokee 140. Get your license in it then figure out if you want or need anything more. Going to be harder to find a instructor for an obscure fabric tail dragger and if you do, you are going to lose alot of training days when the wind isn't blowing light and right down the runway. Plus more expensive insurance and maintenance cost. Fabric also doesn't fare well left outside.

^^^ That.
If you haven’t even started your primary training yet, it’s too premature to be trying to decide what final plane you want.
Get your PPl and tailwheel endorsement, fly a few different airplanes and then come back to this question.


--Edit - meant to say premature.

Bagarre wrote:

Mark Y. wrote:Cessna 150 or 172, cherokee 140. Get your license in it then figure out if you want or need anything more. Going to be harder to find a instructor for an obscure fabric tail dragger and if you do, you are going to lose alot of training days when the wind isn't blowing light and right down the runway. Plus more expensive insurance and maintenance cost. Fabric also doesn't fare well left outside.

^^^ That.
If you haven’t even started your primary training yet, it’s too premature to be trying to decide what final plane you want.
Get your PPl and tailwheel endorsement, fly a few different airplanes and then come back to this question.


--Edit - meant to say premature.

This is really sound advice. I'd recomend that you buy a 172 (the 0-300s are good value now) or a 150 and learn to fly. There are always 150s for sale that some young guy has built hours in, and they are resaleable. It really is a bit of a journey until you need to get the backcountry 180 with all the gear.

You don't know what you don't know until you have immersed yourself in aviation a bit. Enjoy getting your ticket, I did, and I hope that I learn something every time I fire up the plane. Its super satisfying to improve, but it takes time and gas.

Hook, line, and sinker[emoji1]

These guys are offering very sound advise, you should listen to them. The path they are trying to help you go down is a proven one.

I took an alternate path when I got my license but it’s certainly not for everyone. I wanted to fly specifically to access the Idaho wilderness areas. My grandpa learned to fly in a brand new Luscombe in 1946 then him and his brothers bought a ‘46 8A they flew for the next 20 years. Much of their flying was to access remote central Idaho for fishing. When I made the decision I wanted to fly my dad and I bought a basket case Luscombe and spent 3 years restoring it after which I used it to learn to fly. I found the roughest old CFI in the area and if it was fly able weather we flew. He was never too concerned with wind conditions, “if you want to fly in Idaho you can’t be scared of the wind.” I’ll never forget learning cross wind landings in pretty significant winds with the CFI screaming in my ear, he wasn’t too big on radios or headsets. He’d have me drive the length of the runway with tail in the air and after a few lapse we’d have to stop so he could have a cigarette, I guess I kept him on edge. I loved every minute of it and would do it again.

The main hitch in my experience was selling the plane when it was time for something bigger. It sucked and I never want to sell a plane again. Maybe selling a 152, 172 or something like that would be easer or maybe it wouldn’t.