For those of you who built your own planes, what would you do differently next next time or what great lessons did you learn. Big topic, I know, but im hungry for info.

I wouldn't put 60k into an airplane rebuild that was only worth 40k in a strong market

Great question tho, sometimes the excitement for the project exceeds common sense.

Halestorm wrote:I wouldn't put 60k into an airplane rebuild that was only worth 40k in a strong market

Great question tho, sometimes the excitement for the project exceeds common sense.

Yes, and sometimes the anticipation is magnified by our imagination and makes the personal value seem many times stronger than market.

@Halestorm I guess the question is then, should we factor our time into the cost, or deduct it as entertainment?

I would have bought a Maule and spent 5 years flying rather than building.

Seriously though, that’s what I would have done knowing what I know now.

In my example that was strictly parts cost! [emoji23]

If I charged for my labor it would be crazy.

When I get around to another project I’ll be going experimental, easier able to control parts cost in that arena.


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whee wrote:I would have bought a Maule and spent 5 years flying rather than building. [emoji38]

Seriously though, that’s what I would have done knowing what I know now.

What did you build instead?

Halestorm wrote:In my example that was strictly parts cost! [emoji23]

If I charged for my labor it would be crazy.

When I get around to another project I’ll be going experimental, easier able to control parts cost in that arena.


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Seems that experimentals have a higher market value anymore, anyway.

I learned how to drive rivets rebuilding the tail on a Luscombe and ended up with an airworthy tail that had a lot of different size rivets, some shims, and one structural bolt. I would leave it to those with digital dexterity.

Nothing as long as you have another airplane to fly during the build. I did.

bush master wrote:Nothing as long as you have another airplane to fly during the build. I did.

What did you build? Was there anything you changed or added later that would have been better to do initially?

I'm finding that I enjoy the building process way more than I thought I would. I too have held on to my certified plane because I didn't want to be grounded for as much as two years. I'm still building so there may be things I don't know that I don't know yet, but in general I can see my way to the finish line from here.

Things I might do differently:
1) I might have opted to start from a brand new kit instead of a previously started project. If you're looking at a project and haven't built the type of plane you're looking at already then you won't know what is missing or what work needs to be undone - until you're the proud owner of a pile of parts.

2) I would have brought the project home sooner. I initially did most of my work at my hangar, about 10 miles (and a toll bridge) from home. I thought I was making progress but it was slow. Bringing my fuselage home to my one car garage put the project in hyperdrive. Even though space is tight I can sneak in short build sessions almost every day.

3) Tie in with other builders sooner. I've never been accused of being social but 99% of my builder support has been fellow builders and not the factory. One airport neighbor has a completed plane which has been great when I need to see how he completed a task when the manual seems vague. Another builder 30 minutes south of me also bought a project in a similar condition to mine. We leap frog each other's progress which helps keep both of us motivated.

Quis wrote:

whee wrote:I would have bought a Maule and spent 5 years flying rather than building. [emoji38]

Seriously though, that’s what I would have done knowing what I know now.

What did you build instead?

I built a 4-place Bearhawk. I really like it, it’s a great airplane, but I missed 5 years of flying and doing other things that I like, insurance is stupid expensive, and the majority of parts I buy are certified so I’m not saving any money there.

I could have spent a year at the local college getting my A&P then I could work in my own certified airplane plus get paid to work on other airplanes. With all the mods available for a Maule I don’t there there is anything I’d be wishing for. Useful load is the one thing I’d want more of with the Maule.

whee wrote:I would have bought a Maule and spent 5 years flying rather than building.

Seriously though, that’s what I would have done knowing what I know now.

I fell in love with the Bearhawk Patrol. I'd still love to have one, but after four years working on it, I realized I was unlikely to finish the plane before my flying days were done. Although I enjoyed working on the kit, I learned that building wasn't as much fun as I thought it would be... That was largely because the Patrol was definitely too complex a project for THIS first-time builder, given that I live in a fairly remote area, with no other airplane builders or EAA members nearby... Other first-timers with better support infrastructure have succeeded in building Patrols, but I was definitely on a 15-20 year completion curve... And that would have meant that by the time I finished building it, I might be too old to get insurance to fly it!

What I would have done differently is to purchase a kit that could be completed more quickly, but would still meet my flying objectives (some backcountry flying, grass fields, short fields, and STOL performance). I briefly considered building a CH-750, but could not get over the looks of the thing... (My buddy who owns one joked about painting polka-dots all over it, and then telling people the dots were from people touching it with a 10-foot pole... He also said that it doesn't so much fly, as the earth simply repels it because of it's "unique" looks...) I also found that few people achieve the claimed cruise speeds, modest as they are. His Jabiru 3300 (120 hp) powered CH-750 cruised at 80-85 mph, and "maxed out" somewhere around 92-95 mph at max power (burning a lot of gas).

Going back to "shoulda been..." I should probably have selected the RANS S-20 "Raven." Rotax power, sub-300 foot takeoffs and landings, plenty of useful load, tube-and-fabric construction. Compared to the Bearhawk LSA (which I would have picked if it had been available at the time), the S-20 is a little slower (maybe 5 mph), but it's a piece of cake to build, with excellent step-by-step instructions and manuals. Several first-time builders completed theirs in well under a year, though 18 months seems to be the typical time to build.

It was while researching the S-20 Raven that I "discovered" the S-6 Coyote – the RANS predecessor model to the S-20. The primary difference is that the S-6 uses aluminum tube structure in the aft fuselage, whereas the S-20 is chromoly tube - a bit stronger. But the performance numbers are very similar. So similar, in fact, that when I learned I could purchase a completed, flying Coyote for significantly less than the cost of an S-20 kit, I decided to go that route. And like Whee, I was considering taking an A&P course just to be able to maintain and annual the plane, when I learned that "my" specific S-6 Coyote (the one I was purchasing) was actually licensed as E-LSA instead of E-AB, which meant that I only had to complete an FAA-approved "Light Sport Repairman - Inspection" course (16 hours of classroom instruction) to perform annual condition inspections on my own airplane. (The "Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance" course is required to work on other people's light sport airplanes, whether S-LSA or E-LSA. That course is 160 hours of training, with a lot more "hands on" stuff.)

So I'm now the proud owner of a RANS S-6ES Coyote 2, powered by a Rotax 912ULS (100 hp). And I'm very happy with where I wound up!

I don't think I'd tackle a "full on" build but I'm really enjoying the progressive upgrade sort of approach I've been puttering away at with my 170B over the last 4-5 years while still flying it regularly. I have been able to identify smaller "seasonal" projects that improve the flying experience without incurring protracted periods of "downtime". I'm just in the final stages of a "plug & play" instrument panel upgrade with an outlook towards a Spring installation when I change over from wheel skis to floats. However at some point I will have to sacrifice flying for an engine upgrade and will also combine that downtime with as many other little tasks as possible.

All the replies seem, wisely, to talk about making sure you can fly while building. Would most of you recommend, then, rebuilding an already flying plane by making replacement parts which can be swapped out in just a day or so, instead of having one plane just for flying and another that is just sitting in the shop for months or years?

I’m watching this with interest. I fly for a living and I’ve discovered that I actually enjoy tinkering and working on my airplane in my free time about as much as I like flying it (in the lower 48 at least).

I’ve always wanted to build and heavily considered a new experimental build, but I also want my A&P and you can’t get that building experimental. So I decided to take on a massive maule project. Let’s me build hours towards A&P, I have a local expert willing to sign off on the project and give assistance when needed, and I’ll come out ahead financially (hopefully). I actually received my new fuselage today and will start covering it soon while my old fuselage,wings, etc are still flying. This will either be a great project or a horrendous one. Time will tell. I was given some courage/confidence because the IA who signed up to help me and sign off on it just rebuilt his M6 in the exact fashion I am so I learned a lot from that.

The other option I was considering was a building a QB bearhawk which serves the exact same mission profile as my unicorn Maule, with the same engine, same cargo doors, etc etc. I may still build one one day, they look cool and experimental has its perks.

asa wrote:I’m watching this with interest. I fly for a living and I’ve discovered that I actually enjoy tinkering and working on my airplane in my free time about as much as I like flying it (in the lower 48 at least).

I’ve always wanted to build and heavily considered a new experimental build, but I also want my A&P and you can’t get that building experimental. So I decided to take on a massive maule project. Let’s me build hours towards A&P, I have a local expert willing to sign off on the project and give assistance when needed, and I’ll come out ahead financially (hopefully). I actually received my new fuselage today and will start covering it soon while my old fuselage,wings, etc are still flying. This will either be a great project or a horrendous one. Time will tell. I was given some courage/confidence because the IA who signed up to help me and sign off on it just rebuilt his M6 in the exact fashion I am so I learned a lot from that.

The other option I was considering was a building a QB bearhawk which serves the exact same mission profile as my unicorn Maule, with the same engine, same cargo doors, etc etc. I may still build one one day, they look cool and experimental has its perks.

You can apply the time spent building an EAB toward and A&P. Some FAA guys interpret the rules differently but with the right FSDO it can and has been done.

I scratch build a copy of the PA-18 95. This was started in 1990 so I wouldn't have changed anything in that time frame. Today doing the same project I would probably consider various kits. I haven't modified anything and have 1400 hrs.

On one occasion two individuals looked at it, the one said you could have done anything and made more money, the other ask me when I worked on it. I said mostly evenings, the second person ask the first do you remember what you watched on TV over the last 5 years, this guy knows what he did, he has a nice airplane.

I bought a complete kitfox Classic 4 kit package in 1994. Everything including engine, instruments, and polyfiber products through the polyspray coats to build a complete airplane. I don't know if any kit manufacturers still do that.

Before I finished building the airplane I purchased a lot of add on accessories recommended as must have by people on the Kitfox Forum. If I did it again I wouldn't install anything on the airplane that didn't come with the kit. I think all I did was lighten my wallet and make the airplane heavier.