VanDy wrote: You live in a state with the castle doctrine. Not required to run away

Not sure it's quite the same thing when you're away from the castle, and run to it to shoot an intruder that's already inside. I think some sort of "I feared for my life" feeling has to apply.
All testosterone-fueled posturing aside, do some thinking about it ahead of time and be very sure you'd want to take a life over just "stuff". I'm a firm believer in self-defense, I carry every day & I would not hesitate to shoot in defense of my life. But I don't think I'd want to carry around the guilt associated with killing someone just over a lousy ten gallons of gas or a TV or something like that. Even if the person you shoot is a scumbag, remember that even scumbags have parents, spouses, & kids.

hotrod150 wrote:

VanDy wrote: You live in a state with the castle doctrine. Not required to run away

Not sure it's quite the same thing when you're away from the castle, and run to it to shoot an intruder that's already inside. I think some sort of "I feared for my life" feeling has to apply.
All testosterone-fueled posturing aside, do some thinking about it ahead of time and be very sure you'd want to take a life over just "stuff". I'm a firm believer in self-defense, I carry every day & I would not hesitate to shoot in defense of my life. But I don't think I'd want to carry around the guilt associated with killing someone just over a lousy ten gallons of gas or a TV or something like that. Even if the person you shoot is a scumbag, remember that even scumbags have parents, spouses, & kids.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not out to look for trouble and I baited the reader with a somewhat unique circumstance for why I could legally shoot an intruder in my hangar; it's because I live there.

You may not be sure, but here are the facts: NC law allows for the use of deadlly force if someone unlawfully, forcibly enters your residence. You don't need to fear for your life. If I'm not home, then it's a moot point. If I arrive home and it's apparent that someone is in my home, I suppose I would let the police take care of business rather than run in and start shooting. However, I would still be able to use deadly force if I chose to go in and exterminate the scumbag (as long as it's my residence). That's what the law allows.

I didn't know this until I took the concealed carry class. Although I took the class, I don't carry a handgun with me hardly ever (save for coming home from the shooting range) so it would be a no brainer for me to just call the police if I arrive home to find an intruder. I only took the class because my wife's store holds one once a month and I thought why not. If I lived in a place where I felt the necessity to arm myself in public, I'd move.

You can bet your ass though that if I wake up to a barking dog and determine that someone is in my home (even the part of my home where my plane is parked); the home that I share with two teenage girls and my wife, I'm going to take care of business and I don't give rat's ass whether the "scumbag" has parents, a spouse or kids (anothert fact).

Just a thought, but wouldn't it be quite inexpensive to wire your camera to the motion detector light inside your hangar? I'm no expert in wiring, but a couple of those little video cameras with the remotes would be pretty easy to hide and I'm sure there is someone on here that could tell you how to rig the relay up to turn it on.

Hey anyone want to joint venture on this idea, maybe we could market it on the late night tv!!
GT

I stopped doing criminal defense work several years ago, and I'm only authorized to practice in Wyoming and Colorado, so take these words with a little grain of salt.

Regardless of your theoretical defense to any assault or killing charge, you really don't want to go through "the system" as a defendant. You don't know that the local prosecutor will accept your version, or won't think that one of the exceptions to the castle/make-my-day/retreat-to-the-wall (whatever your state uses) defenses applies. Assume that he/she decides to prosecute, you may very well find yourself awaiting trial in jail or getting out by posting a huge bond (bondsmen typically charge 10% of the bond, and you don't get that back), and then you'll have thousands in legal defense costs (at the rate I was charging then, my last really big and lengthy criminal defense trial some 15 years ago cost my client's parents almost $30,000).

There's no guarantee that a jury will buy your defense, either. If not, then you become a convicted felon, plus you'll have the very great likelihood of a lengthy prison sentence. If you get probation, you'll have significant restrictions on your life, including where you can go, when you can go there, what you can drink, what your hours out of your home or business can be, etc. As a felon, you'll lose the right to have any firearms, the right to vote, the right to hold any office of trust, the right to be bonded (such as bankers, stockbrokers, and the like). And there are many, many employers who will not hire a convicted felon, no matter what.

Bottom line is that the risks of taking the law into your own hands are huge. Except for legitimate fear for one's own life or the lives of loved ones, it just isn't worth the risks, in my opinion. Best to leave it to law enforcement, no matter how inefficient you may think that they are in your area.

Cary

M6RV6 wrote:Just a thought, but wouldn't it be quite inexpensive to wire your camera to the motion detector light inside your hangar? I'm no expert in wiring, but a couple of those little video cameras with the remotes would be pretty easy to hide and I'm sure there is someone on here that could tell you how to rig the relay up to turn it on.

Hey anyone want to joint venture on this idea, maybe we could market it on the late night tv!!
GT

If you patent it, just don't call it a game camera.

Cary wrote:I stopped doing criminal defense work several years ago, and I'm only authorized to practice in Wyoming and Colorado, so take these words with a little grain of salt.

Regardless of your theoretical defense to any assault or killing charge, you really don't want to go through "the system" as a defendant. You don't know that the local prosecutor will accept your version, or won't think that one of the exceptions to the castle/make-my-day/retreat-to-the-wall (whatever your state uses) defenses applies. Assume that he/she decides to prosecute, you may very well find yourself awaiting trial in jail or getting out by posting a huge bond (bondsmen typically charge 10% of the bond, and you don't get that back), and then you'll have thousands in legal defense costs (at the rate I was charging then, my last really big and lengthy criminal defense trial some 15 years ago cost my client's parents almost $30,000).

There's no guarantee that a jury will buy your defense, either. If not, then you become a convicted felon, plus you'll have the very great likelihood of a lengthy prison sentence. If you get probation, you'll have significant restrictions on your life, including where you can go, when you can go there, what you can drink, what your hours out of your home or business can be, etc. As a felon, you'll lose the right to have any firearms, the right to vote, the right to hold any office of trust, the right to be bonded (such as bankers, stockbrokers, and the like). And there are many, many employers who will not hire a convicted felon, no matter what.

Bottom line is that the risks of taking the law into your own hands are huge. Except for legitimate fear for one's own life or the lives of loved ones, it just isn't worth the risks, in my opinion. Best to leave it to law enforcement, no matter how inefficient you may think that they are in your area.

Cary

I hate Thieves...

If ya catch one , do the decent thing....SHOOT -SHOVEL- SHUT UP....

If he is really an asshole then make sure you tie him to your bumper. drag him a few miles at 10MPH. stop. pour vinager and salt on his roadrash... And then dispatch him...

I have to agree, if you shoot somebody, even if the tilt of the whole incident is perfect, you will be a victim, in more ways than one. That's why I like Tasers. You see you Tase the SOB. You can keep juicing the bastard until he is unconscious. Take off all his clothing, drive him a considerable distance from the scene, juicing him to maintain effect. Then tie-wrap him to a telephone pole, doused in vodka. Eventually somebody will notice a naked drooling fool and help him out. His short term memory will not be perfect and if the sun comes out, well UV on the privates is not pleasant. The Gurka UN peace keepers did something similar to some Israeli commandos sneaking through their sector in the Sinai, they got burned very evenly. Gurkas do not like being pranked.

Cary wrote:I stopped doing criminal defense work several years ago, and I'm only authorized to practice in Wyoming and Colorado, so take these words with a little grain of salt.

Regardless of your theoretical defense to any assault or killing charge, you really don't want to go through "the system" as a defendant. You don't know that the local prosecutor will accept your version, or won't think that one of the exceptions to the castle/make-my-day/retreat-to-the-wall (whatever your state uses) defenses applies. Assume that he/she decides to prosecute, you may very well find yourself awaiting trial in jail or getting out by posting a huge bond (bondsmen typically charge 10% of the bond, and you don't get that back), and then you'll have thousands in legal defense costs (at the rate I was charging then, my last really big and lengthy criminal defense trial some 15 years ago cost my client's parents almost $30,000).

There's no guarantee that a jury will buy your defense, either. If not, then you become a convicted felon, plus you'll have the very great likelihood of a lengthy prison sentence. If you get probation, you'll have significant restrictions on your life, including where you can go, when you can go there, what you can drink, what your hours out of your home or business can be, etc. As a felon, you'll lose the right to have any firearms, the right to vote, the right to hold any office of trust, the right to be bonded (such as bankers, stockbrokers, and the like). And there are many, many employers who will not hire a convicted felon, no matter what.

Bottom line is that the risks of taking the law into your own hands are huge. Except for legitimate fear for one's own life or the lives of loved ones, it just isn't worth the risks, in my opinion. Best to leave it to law enforcement, no matter how inefficient you may think that they are in your area.

Cary

I guess in your mind, I'm a criminal if I defend my home from an intruder to the extent that the law allows.You must be so used to dealing with criminals that you assume everyone needs legal representation.

There is no such thing as taking the law into your own hands. You are either abiding by the laws or breaking laws. Law abiding citizens don't need legal representation and certainly would not be prosecuted. I suppose that you have made a career out of representing people who have commited crimes and you have little or no experience dealing with a legitimate case involving the castle doctrine where an intruder is rightfully exterminated for breaking into the home of someone who is prepared to deal with the situation (what you refer to as a "theoretical defense").

I don't mean to be harsh or rude, but the opinions you have expressed in your statements above are exactly what is wrong with our society in my opinion and quite frankly we should not have to defend ourselves after we have defended our homes, hangars, cars or whatever that the thieves murders, rapists and any other misfit in our society are trying to take from us when we do so to the extent that the law allows. There is a clear difference in the laws regarding rules of engagement when you are in public vs when you are defending your own home. Your advice would better serve George Zimmerman.

I don't think I would shoot a thief unless I thought he was going to shoot me, my stuff is insured, my time is not. Having said that, if my neighbor shoots someone stealing his stuff, there's less thieves to steal mine . The Castle law at least changed people's mentality about self defense and they're shooting back. I suspect there's less burglers working Texas than there is in California.

I think Cary has outlined what the case would be in most places when a person is shot. From the cases that are presented at all the CCW sites that I read and talking with LEO all over the country it will be a meat grinder, you may come out the other end exonerated and light quite a few dollars from your flying account, on the other hand you may not.

The acid test here is was there a reason to believe you life was at stake. Shooting someone over stuff would be a hard sell in court here.

Good luck if you take that route.

I have a friend who is active LE. He had to shoot a bad guy and watch him die. His words are.

"You never want to kill another human unless it is a life or death situation. It is with you everyday and it is not something you want to live with, trust me"

G'Day

soaringhiggy wrote:...The acid test here is was there a reason to believe you life was at stake. Shooting someone over stuff would be a hard sell in court here.
Good luck if you take that route.

My thoughts also.

OregonMaule wrote:......."You never want to kill another human unless it is a life or death situation. It is with you everyday and it is not something you want to live with, trust me"

Again, my thoughts also. In defense of your life or the lives of your loved ones is one thing, but in defense of your TV ??

I know you never WANT to kill someone...but no intruder, none, no matter what the motive for entering, has a place in my house with my wife and children. I know being responsible for taking a life must be hard to live with, and that fact can't be denied. But it would be unbearable for me to not take action and watch an unpredictable criminal in my house end up hurting or killing one of my own.

Drugs these days do wicked things to people. Some stuff makes a man literally physically unstoppable. Maybe he comes in to just steal a few things, but when he's caught goes ballistic, runs to another room and comes out holding your child by the neck....

The intruder becomes responsible for risking his life when he breaks and enters the home of another. Your home should be the one place you can defend and keep you and your family safe, without question. And in Texas and a few other places, thanks to the castle doctrine, it is.

Here is a place that sells Security stuff really cheap. http://www.x10.com/homepage.htm If you ever buy something you will be hounded by spam for years. I bought a bunch of wireless stuff from them years ago and it works too good. Whenever the trees move the thing would go off so I never use it. It uses battery operated motion sensors and a reciever pluged into an outlet on your house. Your house wiring transmits the signal to a beeper. You can set it up to turn on lights, beep or even call your cell phone. They have a lot of stuff.

Easiest way to deal with thieves is get a bunch of lights. A good motion light will keep most away.Good luck

A guy I knew had a home on one of the small lakes near here. One day he heard some sort of ruckus down by the water & society being what it is he grabbed the first gun that was handy (a Ruger 10/22) and went to investigate. Found a couple yong hooligans screwing around on his little dock. They started sassing him pretty good when he told them to take off, being a pretty big guy he grabbed ahold of one and threw him into the little rowboat they arrived in. The oher one jumped in & off they went, he hollered don't come back unless you want your ass kicked. Showed some pretty good restraint IMHO. Well, he gets a call the next day from the local sheriff's dept-- the kids (or their parents) called the cops & told them that he was brandishing a gun & threatening them. These kids were well-known by the local cops so it wasn't taken seriously, but they still wanted him to come in and make a statement, and oh by the way please bring the fiream with you. I think they confiscated it & he ended up having to engage a lawyer to get it back & everythng squared away. A big hassle even though he was entirely in the right & acted with considerable restraint, and nothing actually really happened. So just imagine the hassle if you actually shot someone- self-defense or no.
Like I said, lethal force in defense of life or limb- you bet. But in defense of property only-- not a good idea.

From the concealed carry class I attended, taught by an attorney and former LEO:

Never - NEVER - use a firearm to intimidate or threaten. A firearm is used to KILL. If you aren't prepared to kill someone don't pull the weapon. Period.

If you do pull it and use it. First and foremost call is to your attorney. The last call is to the police. When they do finally come the only thing you tell them is: "I was in fear for my (my family's) life. I want my attorney."

You will be arrested. You will be intimidated to talk. Do not. Period. The police are not your friends in this matter. They are there to close the case as quickly and cleanly as possible. They are heavily trained to use your words against you to this end. Don't help them ruin your life.

The attorney will cost you money. Don't waste it by talking to the police.

Is it ok if I hijack the tread back to hangar alarm systems?
I installed the SimpliSafe alarm system today. Instead if screwing the motion sensors into place, I used 3M permanent hold double sided tape, and where I didn't have a corner, I used a small 'L' bracket to hold the motion sensors. (Hopefully they work better than the design they had for putting them up!)
I paid/am paying extra ~$25 a month for smart phone notifications (besides LE) instead of just LE, which is just ~$15/month. There is no contract at all, so the monitoring can be changed, or terminated at my convenience.
Everything was pretty easy/logical/intuitive on the computer activation part. I can check on the computer or smart phone if the system is on duty/set or not.
Within a couple months SimpliSafe will have a smoke detector available to integrate into the system, which I like, and might help reduce ins. premiums a little-both for hangar and planes-I hope, anyway.
I am going to test the motion sensors some more tomorrow....

lc

littlecub, how can you hijack this like that, that was well, you know, extraordinary. Good to see that it was a good installation.

Av8er, I have been told the same.

IMHO there is little vibrato, huavos, chutzpah, or any other word you can say that states killing someone is an easy thing to do without extreme prejudice.

Well the install went reasonably well, but I have had TWO false motion alarms in 2 days......
Come to find out these sensors and the alarm system are meant for indoor/controlled environment/controlled temperature/domestic abode situations and NOT an airplane hangar with large temperature swings..... So back it goes. Nothing on the web site indicated this was an issue, but I did know it was a 'home system'. (In my pre-purchase phone conversations/questions, I had indicated it was for an airplane hangar, but I guess they didn't picture temperature swings-or whatever)
I will purchase and install a system with 'outdoor' motion detectors that are considerably more expensive and more tolerant of considerably larger temperature swings than the residential ones on this SimpliSafe system. They are considerably more expen$ive, too, of course.

Live and learn.
lc